I have a question I cant resolve no matter how much I think about it, maybe you can help me:
Lets say we live in purely market economy, no state involved, and a private organization owns and operates the road in front of your small town, this is the only road to get out of the town, but you and others in the town are too poor to pay for the continuous use of that road and therefore are "imprisoned" there (assume in this scenario that you have to make several trips a day or at least more than you can pay).
What is the solution?
Reaching an understanding with the owner of the road?
Challenge his right to such road?
The real solution is probably car pooling. It is what poor people do. They (we) ride buses.
But it can also be pointed out that it makes no economic sense for the road owner to charge more than his only potential customers can afford to pay. Even if the toll is so low that it does not cover the maintence costs, not charging any toll (because no one is using the road) will lead to even higher loses.
And we all know that for such a scenario to come about the state probably had to come involved in at one point. Because in an ancap revolution such a road would promptly get seized by the Small Town Road Company in which every household would have one share (initially).
Maybe the local news station, or an online blogger, or another journalism outlet covers the story which elicits public anger followed by boycotts. The bad press could influence the road owner to change the road price.
This situation seems unlikely. A profit-seeking road owner presumably would like to earn some profits by charging less instead of no profits by charging too much.
show me this town on googlemap airview
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
First, I don't think that this circumstance would be common. Nobody is going to build a road in the first place if someone cannot afford it. A poor town may not need an expensive super highway running through it. They may be able to get by with a dirt or gravel road, which would probably not have very high construction costs and someone who owns a vehicle would likely be able to afford. In the unlikely case that this circumastance occurs, I think there are several solutions.
1. If people can't afford to use the road, then they will have to stop using it, meaning that the road owner will not be able to make a profit or even maintain the road. The road owner will try to reduce his fees, but if he can't reduce the fees enough then he is going to go out of business Once the owner realizes that he is sunk , he can either sell the road to someone who will run it more efficiently, or he may abandon it if the road's maintenance costs are too high to even warrant owning.
2. People of the town could build another road by building on portions of their individual properties, or they can sell land for the purpose of constructing a road.
3. People could begin carpooling, reducing the cost to each individual.
4. People could use alternative forms of transportation. The town may be walking distance from a train station, or a bus company may have stops within the town. Is the town near a water source? If there is a river or a large lake, then boats could be used as transportation. Fees may need to be paid for the use of the waterway.
These are only a few possible solutions, but I don't think this situation would be common in a free market.
So how does he afford the car and gas? Should we have the State involved in that too since you and others are too poor and are "imprisoned" in your little town.
"So how does he afford the car and gas? Should we have the State involved in that too since you and others are too poor and are "imprisoned" in your little town."
Why the hostility man?
The situation is a semi-hypothetical situation I heard in college about a small town surrounded by roads concessed to private companies by the state.
I took the state out of the equation because I thought it would be too simple to say "the state has the fault", maybe it has but I wanted a free market aproach.
Simples. You don't use the road.
or:
Walter Block discusses it here at about the 42 minute mark.
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It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer
I have another question I am also having problems resolving.
Lets say we live in purely market economy, no state involved, and a private organization owns this huge desert and there is a man in the middle of it dying of thirst. Not only that he has one leg and he cannot walk out. It's likely that the owner of the desert won't bother to go out and save him. This man is likely to die.
Whats the solution here?!!?!?
Sorry for the extreme satire but my point is that anyone can setup a scenario with arbitrary restrictive variables that will create a situation of failure, market oriented or not. In the case of roads we have no earthly idea how that would be formated on the market. We can only guess as to what the solution would be, though I would assume such a situation would likely never occur in the first place. Like my story above, how does a one legged man end up in the desert by himself in the first place? As far as alternatives people have already begun to mention just a few good ideas just off the top of their head, like dirtbikes! There are countless alternatives and solutions here and who knows what innovation would bring.
What do we stand to gain by entering into such thought games? Not trying to be condescending but I am serious. What benefit do we derive? Perhaps you can help squelch my cynicism.
filc: What do we stand to gain by entering into such thought games? Not trying to be condescending but I am serious. What benefit do we derive? Perhaps you can help squelch my cynicism.
A few benefits:
1. The enjoyment of intellectual play.
2. Sharpening our understanding of AE.
3. Removing an objection the OP considers a serious one.
Of course, just as not everyone enjoys pizza or chinese food, not everyone will enjoy such a discussion. Different strokes.
"show me this town on googlemap airview"
Look up Craig Beach, Ohio. There is one road in and out of town; Grandview Ave (actually, my gps says there's another, so google might too, but i assure you, the road leading west is not there).
In States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it. ... In short, a law everywhere and for everything!
~Peter Kropotkin
Letting the man die may be a pr nightmare for the owner of the desert. If he doesn't save the one legged man, nobody will want to vacation at his numerous desert resorts or use his tour services.
"If people can't afford to use the road, then they will have to stop using it, meaning that the road owner will not be able to make a profit or even maintain the road."
Unless it is a major thoroughfare to other towns, but still the only one in and out of the original town.
A New Hope:Letting the man die may be a pr nightmare for the owner of the desert. If he doesn't save the one legged man, nobody will want to vacation at his numerous desert resorts or use his tour services.
A lot of people lose their entire savings, cars, or home in Vegas and the casinos couldn't really give a crap about it. Nor does that stop me from going and having a good time myself! :)
I respect your opinion Dave.