Ok, so today was my second day of macroeconomics and I already need some ammunition for the teacher. Today she was discussing efficiency, inflation, along with healthcare and education. When she wasn’t discussing those things she was praising Europe and downplaying America like every other teacher. Well, it didn’t take long for me to get fed up and start challenging her statements.
I don’t feel like typing out the whole argument but to sum it up, I stated: free markets lead to efficiency over time in all goods and services, healthcare and education are luxuries, our current high prices are due to inflation, medical schools/universities are in bed with government and heavily subsidized, and there is no such thing as “free”.
She stated: free markets tend to lead to efficiency; however there are exceptions such as healthcare and education which are rights. She used Europe as an example. She said I was crazy when I said that the reason healthcare costs so much is because regulations made by the government. She said medical school is not in any relation to government, after I told her the government restricts the amount of doctors to keep their salaries high. She said it’s the medical schools fault for not accepting as many applications into their school, and that they, not government did it intentionally to keep up their salaries. This is why we need government to step in she claimed. She also claimed taxes are good and leads to “free stuff” like healthcare and education. I said we would have a lot more money if the government didn’t tax us so much, and she said it wouldn’t matter, because prices would still be high due to greedy cooperation’s. She was also glorifying unions and downing wal mart the whole time. Still the most disgusting thing I think she said was about farmers wasting food and milk to keep prices high. Has she never heard of FDR and all the pigs he ordered to be slaughtered!
Basically I want to see if any of you have any good solid information on medical schools/universities being subsidized, unions, inflation, Wal-Mart, Europe etc. that even she would be able to understand. What sucks is that it made seem like I was defending "America" because of her glorification of Europe. I do plan on going to next class ready to have a field day with her. I already have some articles in mind, but the more suggestions the better!
why are you talking health care in a macro course? seems really odd
anyways, don't say things "that even she would be able to understand". it is bad form.
and don't go to class to talk politics. if you really want to challenge her views (assuming she is stating them as forcefully as you imply), go to her during office hours. not only will you get better responses from her (she wont be trying to respond to your political points while balancing a lesson plan), you also won't be distracting students that are uninterested in politics (unless you *need* an audience).
all that being said, there are a number of good articles out there on rising health care costs. here is a good one by milton friedman:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/7298
if you want to have a civilized discussion with her, send her an article like that via e-mail and ask her about her thoughts. you will not get a descenet response from her if you just jump on her with random facts you have collected out of the blue (i doubt she is spending her evening getting together bullet points for her debates with you, she is probably more interested in getting her lecture notes together).
Ambition is a dream with a V8 engine - Elvis Presley
If you insist on taking a University Macro course I would say: do whatever she tells you and learn real economics on your free time. You may imagine that professors exist to broaden intellectual horizons and referee substantive debates of students. The real fact is that they're propagandists and efficiency experts for the state. Once you recognize her true profession it becomes blatantly against her self interest to recognize real economics contra her religious welfarism.
“Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.” - Benito Mussolini"Toute nation a le gouvernemente qu'il mérite." - Joseph de Maistre
You obviously want to corner that statist pig and POINT OUT THE MOTHERF***ING GUN IN THE ROOM!11!!! That will show her who's boss.
Student: why are you talking health care in a macro course? seems really odd anyways, don't say things "that even she would be able to understand". it is bad form. and don't go to class to talk politics. if you really want to challenge her views (assuming she is stating them as forcefully as you imply), go to her during office hours. not only will you get better responses from her (she wont be trying to respond to your political points while balancing a lesson plan), you also won't be distracting students that are uninterested in politics (unless you *need* an audience). all that being said, there are a number of good articles out there on rising health care costs. here is a good one by milton friedman: http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/7298 if you want to have a civilized discussion with her, send her an article like that via e-mail and ask her about her thoughts. you will not get a descenet response from her if you just jump on her with random facts you have collected out of the blue (i doubt she is spending her evening getting together bullet points for her debates with you, she is probably more interested in getting her lecture notes together).
Well she's the one who brought up the subjects, I just rejected her views and told her my own. It's impossible to take economics class without some type of politics coming into play. As far as me needing an audience, I was very shy to start challenging her and my heart was beating incredibly fast the whole time I was arguing with her. I just couldn't stand to listen to another word of her bullshit.
I was thinking about seeing her after class next time, but I still want to have my guns blazin and challenge her every assertion. I just can't stand these liberal teachers anymore.
Yes I know what your saying, I just can't stand being in class for over an hour while listening to all this bullshit, while I at least know some truth about economics. I feel like being a part of the problem, not the solution if I don't keep her on her toes, and give other student's the oppurtunity to see the light.
I just can't stand these liberal teachers anymore.
Why are you going to Uni? The jobs you can get from a degree (especially an academic one) will take forever and a day to pay of the investment of time and money; you're not really going to learn anything either. That's why I remain employed; there is more real intellectual substance in daily conversations with my friends than anything I saw in college.
give other student's the oppurtunity to see the light.
That would be against their natural inclination as well as their social-climbing interests. As James J. Martin argued, there is little evidence that people are ever convinced of anything against their natural temperament.
Vichy Army: Why are you going to Uni? The jobs you can get from a degree (especially an academic one) will take forever and a day to pay of the investment of time and money; you're not really going to learn anything either. That's why I remain employed; there is more real intellectual substance in daily conversations with my friends than anything I saw in college. Why I go to college : The degree, I get to keep my left over FASFA right now (currently at a community college, intend to tranfer), girls, and networking. | Post Points: 35
May I suggest employment (more than you'll get from FAFSA), money (from aforementioned) for girls and Facebook (I know more Econ professors on FB than most college students do IRL)?
Institutional economics is alive and well.
" I stated: free markets lead to efficiency over time in all goods and services,"
This is a concession to mainstream economics right off the bat. It is built on the fallacy of perfect competition in equilibrium which has no counterpart in the real world.
Markets are efficient in the short run and long run. Profits indicate efficient use of resources. The more profits the better!
Try not argue with here next time from mainstream microeconomics perspectives. It weakens your argument.
Blow her away and go Austrian all the way! Take no prisoners! F#$K the grade. This is for the future of humanity.
Sign all of your papers as Cato!
Definitely stay in college, CP. The present value of a college degree is very high and those who end up getting a degree statistically make much more money than those without a degree. Also, it is important to expose yourself to differing view points. While she may be wrong you'll learn a lot from trying to understand the points she's trying to make. Good luck!
Not so much for academic degrees. For what it matters in normal employment a degree in almost anything is workable, may as well be some BS like English.
For the one who said its best to stay employed, and not go through college, I only have a HS degree- not worth a whole lot, but even with the loans I have, the average (not best way to get data, but it what is availible) starting salary for Mechanical engineers, from the school I'm at is ~60k a year, and thats all (hopefully and roughly) my loans will be, so for me, its definately worth the time, effort, and cost. And dealing with AP Economics means I won't have to deal with it in college :)
Reminds me of my political science courses in college. This semester I'll be having my first econ course, and I'm sure I'll have similar discussions. Expect at least one thread based on it. This is what is interesting about truth, even a scholar who has studied for years will look stupid.
I remember when I told one of my teachers I was an ancap. Looked at me like I was crazy.
Freedom has always been the only route to progress.