As an ardent supporter of the NAP, I am disgusted by the military and its supporters. I often roll my eyes when I see messages such as "support our troops!" and "they died for your freedom!" come across my Facebook feed. I don't engage these people, because I am skeptical of their ability and/or willingness to have a rational conversation on the subject. It seems like the military is one of the few sacred cows left in our country. What are your thoughts on the military? Do you respect and/or honor them? How vocal are you in your support or opposition?
(I chose the title because it is veteran's day, but I wanted the discussion to be about the military in general.)
Soldiers lead very sad lives. They've been so bullied to the point where they sacrifice their personality, emotions and lives in total vain.
Well, it's highly religious (in a dogmatic sense) criminal organization dedicated to killing people. While I pity veterans because of what they went through...I can't imagine a way to justify their crimes (voluntary or involuntary).
And respect? No, I do not respect any of them, maybe just pity (some of them).
(english is not my native language, sorry for grammar.)
I think of them as Quasimodo, valiantly fighting off those who wish to save the girl he loves from certain death, in his peabrained little mind thinking they are the enemy. Except for soldiers instead of peabrained it's brainwashed.
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It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer
I don't.
I'm watching Wartorn on HBO right now and it's pretty powerful. It chronicles the stories of some soldiers coming back from Iraq. We all know these guys have problems re-entering society - that much is well documented. But I'm watching a guy who's been suffering emotional problems for two years sitting in front of the camera talking about all the bad things he's done and how he'll never be the same again. Pretty powerful stuff and I want all my friends to watch this special.
You know what these guys want to say - that it was all for nothing, that their "service" destroyed their lives, that they were brainwashed, used, and lied to. But many of them can't, and I get the impression that the guilt and repression has a snowball effect. If you don't feel some sympathy for them while watching it, you at least get a good picture of how evil the state and militarism are.
Unfortunately, war is inevitable given the immaturity and ignorance of mankind. I think it is important to recognize those who have fought, and to use the experience of war as an opportunity to practice forgiveness and compassion.
I respect a soldier, forced between a rock and a hard place by the reality of war, who displays courage and loyalty to his comrades in the defense of his people or country, and who follows the "ethics" of war given the situation (only engages opposing troops and leaves civilians alone).
While mindless flag-waving and blind militarism certainly stifle rational conversation, so do lofty ideals like pacifism (and perhaps the NAP) which disregard hard truths and the complex factors that lead to war.
I think Veteran's Day is an excellent opportunity to pay respect onto veterans who have gone through tramautic events, while pointing out to the general public that it is absolutely necessary to end all aggressive wars.
Political Atheists Blog
1. "in the defense of his people or country" Which wars have been fought for those reasons by the USA?
2. Which "hard truths" do you refer to? Please be specific. Which "complex factors" do you refer to? Please be specific.
krazy kaju: I think Veteran's Day is an excellent opportunity to pay respect onto veterans who have gone through tramautic events, while pointing out to the general public that it is absolutely necessary to end all aggressive wars.
I agree but for the phrase "pay respect". The correct phrase is "show pity", or "show compassion". How are they any different than, say, a woman who is raped, or a child that is molested? Do you "pay respect" to molested children?
There hasn't been a war that any of these veterans fought in that was actually worth fighting in, so I don't see an actual point to celebrate it. More war propaganda.
"Unfortunately, war is inevitable given the immaturity and ignorance of mankind."
No it's not. And no it isn't. Nor are those attributes of mankind. Self interest is however.
Your veterans (American, British, Australian...) didn't do anything for you so you don't actually have anything to be thankful to them for, it would make you phonies to be so. On the other hand some of them have done something for others and can be valid recipients of gratitude from elsewhere. Eg a Russian may be glad for both his own WWII Red Army veterans and for the American ones. But I think that this was not originaly the purpose of Armistice day. I think originally the holiday was more in the mold of remembering the horrors of war people had to go through and being glad it is all over in a sad-quiet-recollection-kind-of-way rather than about having to enthusiastically pay fealty to ex combat soldiers.
Remembrance Day here is about remembering when that arsehole Louis Botha betrayed his countrymen to the British Empire's sordid global ambitions.
I know several veterans. They're all noble folks (although I know not every veteran is). They're misguided and sometimes uncritical thinkers, but the ones I know aren't evil. I have pity for many of them because they, and just about everyone else, thinks that the military is the only thing keeping us from instant death.
It's hard to get anyone to actually admit there might be instances in which the US is fighting somewhere it shouldn't. If the US is fighting somewhere it shouldn't then the veterans don't really deserve all the hero worship.
The glorification of war should never be acceptable. Glorification of service to the State is more what Veteran's Day is all about.
I would say that if you have contempt for veterans over the NAP, then you probably also hold similar contempt to over 90% of the population who also violate the NAP and do so more regularly than veterans.
You might also hold some form of contempt over those who do follow the NAP, but have yet been unable to convince others to embrace it due to lack of effort.
That means there are probably less than 1% or perhaps a handful of people who follow the NAP and actively promote it.
Veterans are the cogs in the machine of the State who on occassion commit aggression via direct force - although a lot of veterans aren't combat-oriented and fill a support role. Some, who the closest they came to harm was a paper cut, are honored side-by-side with those who lost a limb protecting their buddies.
The vast majority of others in the machine commit their aggression via coercion or supporting others who use force or coercion. Some might claim all taxpayers fit into this category.
Now on the human level, sympathizing with those who've been through the horrors of war is normal. In a very real sense the individual is a victim of State war whether they serve voluntarily or not. And among a group of soldiers who have come together to survive the ordeal, the interpersonal bonds are admirable. But not all veterans have this experience, so each individual may be respected not because they were veterans, but because of how they acted given the situation.
I think blanket statements that lump all who serve the State in a military capacity and honors them, shows great disrespect for the individual actions of those who did indeed act with honor. The same goes for blanket statements against veterans.
Essentially, the recognition given on Veteran's Day is more about State and State War glorification than honoring the individual actions of those deserving such respect. It's also become a way for people to justify their own acts of aggression via coercion or support of force or coercion, and to feel good about themselves. That's why you have all the slogans: "Support the Troop", "They Died for Your Freedom", etc. It's a great big advertisement campaign to glorify the State through war and feel good about it. Pretty sick stuff, if you ask me.
Here is the Garfield strip from Veteran's day:
Jim Davis later apologized, but it is still funny.
As long as there’s no draft no one need to feel sorry about them. Still, one must have had quite a rough life to find shooting strangers a good career choice.