I've just stumbled upon this idea, though it must be a no-brainer.
Took me about 10 minutes using free software to create this (hope it does not show, heh).
Could anyone suggest more sites like zazzle? I am not completely happy with their content policy.
http://www.vforvoluntary.com/store
Wow, thanks!
I knew the idea must be in wide use already :)
I love the individual sovereignty t shirt.
Mises.org's store has t-shirts. Rothbard is quite cool.
Right, but we all can do that (both design and marketing), in slightly various ways. That's better than a single centralized way, ain't it?
I've just stumbled upon this idea, though it must be a no-brainer. Took me about 10 minutes using free software to create this (hope it does not show, heh).
I'm confused by the grammar. "How do you call this when it's 'voluntary'?" doesn't really make sense.
faber est suae quisque fortunae
What software did you use?
Andrews Environmental Management
"How do you ccall * it * this when it's voluntary?"
Still makes no sense, and that is not what is printed on the shirts. I quoted it correctly. I assume it is supposed to be, "How do you call this 'voluntary'?" or perhaps, "How can you call this 'voluntary'?"
I like the 'property of NO ONE' shirts.
I would like to see one that says 'Ask not what your country can do for you, PERIOD'
JackCuyler:Still makes no sense, and that is not what is printed on the shirts. I quoted it correctly. I assume it is supposed to be, "How do you call this 'voluntary'?" or perhaps, "How can you call this 'voluntary'?"
That was bugging me too. Even then it's still confusing. Who calls it voluntary? (Well, who except for Harry Reid)
http://www.cafepress.com/+libertarian+t-shirts There are some good ones here scattered around.
"Libertarianism: the radical notion that you don't own other people."
"1984 is not an instruction manual."
"Irony is a statist calling an anarchist a threat to society."
"1913: Worst. Year. Ever."
http://scifigeektees.com/search/pg=1&prod=Tees_T-shirts_Gift_Ideas/mises.htm
My Blog: http://www.anarchico.net/
Production is 'anarchistic' - Ludwig von Mises
I quoted it correctly. I assume it is supposed to be, "How do you call this 'voluntary'?" or perhaps, "How can you call this 'voluntary'?"
Well, English is not my first language (or even my second). The idea was to say that taxation is theft. To say that directly would be too blunt a message (not to mention the site has a policy against suggesting breaking laws), so I tried to be more subtle. The picture means robbery. "This" refers to the picture. How do you call robbery when the robber pretends it's voluntary (thus scary quotes)? I would appreciate any suggestions for improvement of wording.
Inkscape, as I wanted quick result in vector graphics.
Hope there won't be any issues with IP if someone implements this idea? ;)
Seriously, I will think about it, sounds great.
Andris Birkmanis: I quoted it correctly. I assume it is supposed to be, "How do you call this 'voluntary'?" or perhaps, "How can you call this 'voluntary'?" Well, English is not my first language (or even my second). The idea was to say that taxation is theft. To say that directly would be too blunt a message (not to mention the site has a policy against suggesting breaking laws), so I tried to be more subtle. The picture means robbery. "This" refers to the picture. How do you call robbery when the robber pretends it's voluntary (thus scary quotes)? I would appreciate any suggestions for improvement of wording.
Well, as I stated above I don't think there's very many people who argue that taxation is voluntary. I think the conflict comes in the fact that they differentiate taxation from other types of taking things by force. They have to concede taxes aren't voluntary, but they simply justify the force by saying it's "necessary"...or that it's not force...or at least not theft. If you watch this interview of Alan Colmes, you'll see how admits it's not voluntary, but refuses to admit it's force. You'll also notice how he attempts to justify it by speaking of a "contract" that people have with the society they live in.
In other words, you might not be able to get around using the word "theft", depending on how subtle you're willing to be. Phrases you might consider:
Or if it has to deal with voluntary:
And a two sided one might be:
Front: What's going on in this picture?
Back: Taxation or theft?
or
Front: What is this called?
Back: (Same picture & text as front, except guy with gun has a badge)
Thanks for ideas!
Front: What is this called? Back: (Same picture & text as front, except guy with gun has a badge)
I had a similar idea - front: picture and text "BAD". Back: picture and a guy has a badge, text is "GOOD?!"
I am still unsure how aggressively the site is going to enforce its policy against breaking the laws, so I prefer to be subtle at the moment.
Saying taxation is theft or is against the law is not suggesting that anyone break the law. In fact it's suggesting that the law is being broken and should be followed. I'm pretty sure there are laws against suggesting people to break the law too...but libertarian writers aren't in jail for writing about how the tax system is legalized theft.
I agree with this analysis, I guess I will get there yet.
BTW, regarding your point on "voluntary" - the motto of IRS' equivalent in my country is "We are your partners in honest fulfilment of obligations towards the state" - a mouthful, and suggests voluntary fulfilment. I guess I should make a local variant of a t-shirt with this motto :)
I know Jack, I was correcting the typo
The shirt made sense to me because it's the common image of "CAPITALISM: WORK OR STARVE", something along those lines. The creator of the shirt is reminding the audience that there is a choice involved, which is very different from being held up at gunpoint.
I like the idea of the two pictures of the same thing, except one with and one without a badge. The only thing I would change is make both pictures smaller and both on the front... many people won't read the back of the shirt so it won't make any sense if only one of the pictures is on the front. You should consider putting the pictures side by side or one above the other.
Yeah that's a decent point about the side by side. In that case you might even just put: "What's the difference?"
Good idea. I like that one too.
Oooo...or maybe "Can you spot the difference?"
Or actually, "Is there a difference?" might be the best of both...as it poses the question of is there really a difference between taxation and theft (like the first one) but also brings the viewer in, as if inviting him to find the discrepancy...like the second one.
I like this. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
The Greek phrase Molōn labe! (Μολὼν λαβέ; approximate Ancient Greek pronunciation [molɔ̀ːn labé], Modern Greek [moˈlon laˈve]), meaning "Come and take them" is a classical expression of defiance reportedly by King Leonidas I in response to the Persian army's demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae. It corresponds roughly to the modern equivalent English phrase "over my dead body", "bring it on" or, most closely, "come and get it". It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.
Actually John, I don't think that would work so well because the average person does not think of taxation as violence so they wouldn't even make the connection to taxation. They would just think it was some message about bully cops.
How about this? The two pictures one above the other. Next to the robber is the word "ROBBER" and next to the guy he's robbing "VICTIM." Then on the other picture next to the police officer, "TAX COLLECTOR" and next to the victim "TAXPAYER."
That might draw attention to the excellent PR job government has done making taxation seem voluntary through their wording.
Either that or just "ROBBERY" and "TAXATION" next to them.
Or maybe under the pictures, "Funny how extortion is called taxation when the government does it."
And I like your idea DomV. It's subtle enough to wear around casually, and would be a good conversation starter if anyone asked about it.
Zizzer:Actually John, I don't think that would work so well because the average person does not think of taxation as violence so they wouldn't even make the connection to taxation. They would just think it was some message about bully cops.
I doubt people know who Murray Rothbard is and make the connection to the "enemy of the state" t-shirt either. The point is it's a conversation starter. Kind of like paying in $2 bills....or...say...random phrases in Greek (or Latin) that virtually no one would be able to translate, let alone know the background.
If you're gonna go that far you might as well just use the one picture and a phrase like I suggested above...
Will try it later today.
BTW, is the IRS logo something an average American would recognize on the spot, even subconsciously? I made it barely recognizable on purpose, to avoid copyright issues :) Maybe I should preserve more resemblance to the original.
Actually, it took less time than expected: http://www.zazzle.com/what_is_a_difference_between_robbery_and_taxation_tshirt-235909330140300985
I added some text on the back - what is great, it seems that anyone can create clones of any design on this site (subject to copyright, but you have my permission), and publish modified versions, like changed text, or resized images. So if you like a t-shirt with "clean" back, that's easy!
No worries on the copyright...they're works of the US government, thus in the public domain. The one caveat is that you can't use it to give the false impression that the agency is endorsing whatever you're putting the symbol on. But the IRS logo I don't think even has that restriction.
Have a look:
Internal Revenue Service-Seal
IRS logo
Either way, you can just make it a generic representation without all the details. You could even just have a circle with "IRS" on it if you wanted.
Regarding Rothbard ...
My friends say he looks like the Six Flags guy, so perhaps a T of Murray with his thick specs and big smile exclaiming 'Less Flags, More Fun!' with the mises.org url on the bottom?
We are the soldiers for righteousnessAnd we are not sent here by the politicians you drink with - L. Dube, rip
bbnet:Regarding Rothbard ...My friends say he looks like the Six Flags guy, so perhaps a T of Murray with his thick specs and big smile exclaiming 'Less Flags, More Fun!' with the mises.org url on the bottom?
That's actually really funny. A news guy seems to think he looks like someone even more famous...
(mistaken identity comes at 3:58)
Hehehe, great T-shirt, the simple visuals got it right. XD
I am considering creating a series of t-shirts: "Crimes do not count when done by government agents".
I already have extortion/taxes, and I think murder/war, counterfeiting/central bank, and slavery/conscription should be pretty straightforward.
Not sure about kidnapping/jail. Any more ideas?
You got the major ones, but a few more might be:
Censoring/ sheltering, searching & seizing/ protecting, spying/ guarding (or "watching over")
Also you might run the phrases by some native English speakers to get some input on the most effective wording. Like for this line of shirts you might call it: "Crimes are not illegal when committed by government", or "It's not a crime if you've got a badge."
Thanks again!
"Crimes are not illegal when committed by government" - sounds great, except I would like to stress it that acts are committed by individuals working for the government, not the government itself.
Yeah that's why I threw in the second option. But most people don't differentiate the state and officials of the state anyway. I'm not exactly sure where this title would go or how you plan to use it, so I'm not totally clear what would work best. Other ideas: