Some may have heard about the Joe Horn case. Where a Texas Home owner shot two burglars broke into his neighbours house, after they had left that house and entered his property.
PASADENA, Tex. — Joe Horn’s home was his castle, but what about his neighbor’s home? When Mr. Horn, a 61-year-old retiree living with his daughter and her family in a growing subdivision in this Houston suburb, saw two burglars breaking into the house next door on Nov. 14, he called 911 and grabbed his shotgun. Moments later, after what the police say was a confrontation on Mr. Horn’s front lawn, the two men — both illegal immigrants — lay dead on winding Timberline Drive, leaving behind a pillowcase stuffed with jewelry and about $2,000 in cash. One of them, identified by the police as Hernando Torres, a k a Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, was found across the street beside a sleigh and a Santa cow with a sign, “Have a Moo-ry Christmas,” at the house of a Pasadena police officer. The other, Diego Ortiz, 30, fell on a neighbor’s lawn. Bloodstains were still visible on the sidewalk Tuesday. “The fire department did some pressure washing, but you can still see where he was,” said the neighbor, who did not want her name used. “You don’t know who is tied to them, who may still retaliate.” The shootings in Village Grove East, where the biggest excitement is usually the comings and goings of school buses, have set off a storm of issues. “There’s the First Amendment,” said Charles Lamont, a neighbor and a marine captain who served in Iraq, citing the protests for and against Mr. Horn that have convulsed the neighborhood. The Pasadena City Council on Tuesday gave preliminary approval to a ban on demonstrations at private residences. Then there was Mr. Horn’s claim of self-defense under the Legislature’s reformulation of the “castle doctrine” that, as of September, no longer requires a Texan to retreat before using deadly force at his own “habitation” in the face of a perceived lethal threat. Protecting a neighbor’s property, however, is not included. Protesters have also made race an issue. Mr. Horn is white and the burglars, he told the 911 operator, were black. Yet the neighbors whose house Mr. Horn was protecting are Vietnamese. They later said they thought the two men had been stalking them. A police report suggests Mr. Torres and Mr. Ortiz may have been shot in the back. And both, the police say, were illegal immigrants from Colombia, Mr. Ortiz having been deported in 1999 after being sentenced to 25 years for cocaine convictions. Mr. Horn went into seclusion even before a death threat was left on an answering machine Sunday in the Harris County district attorney’s office. He has been too upset to comment, said his lawyer, Charles T. Lambright. Capt. Bud Corbett, a spokesman for the Pasadena Police Department, said that Mr. Horn had cooperated with the investigation and that the police report would be ready for the district attorney by the end of next week. Then, Captain Corbett said, a grand jury will decide whether Mr. Horn will face homicide charges. The shootings were denounced by scores of black demonstrators including Quanell X, the leader of the Houston-based New Black Panther Nation, who led a march on Dec. 2. He denounced Mr. Horn as “judge, jury and executioner” amid scuffles with white biker counter-protesters. One vital piece of evidence is certain to be the audiotape of Mr. Horn’s 911 calls. In a low, calm and steady voice, he said he saw the men breaking in and asked: “I’ve got a shotgun; do you want me to stop them?” The Pasadena emergency operator responded: “Nope. Don’t do that. Ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, O.K.?” Mr. Horn said: “But hurry up, man. Catch these guys will you? Cause, I ain’t going to let them go.” Mr. Horn then said he would get his shotgun. The operator said, “No, no.” But Mr. Horn said: “I can’t take a chance of getting killed over this, O.K.? I’m going to shoot.” The operator told him not to go out with a gun because officers would be arriving. “O.K.,” Mr. Horn said. “But I have a right to protect myself too, sir,” adding, “The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.” The operator said, “You’re going to get yourself shot.” But Mr. Horn replied, “You want to make a bet? I’m going to kill them.” Moments later he said, “Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.” Then he said: “Move, you’re dead.” There were two quick explosions, then a third, and the 911 call ended..... read on about Joe Horn
When Mr. Horn, a 61-year-old retiree living with his daughter and her family in a growing subdivision in this Houston suburb, saw two burglars breaking into the house next door on Nov. 14, he called 911 and grabbed his shotgun.
Moments later, after what the police say was a confrontation on Mr. Horn’s front lawn, the two men — both illegal immigrants — lay dead on winding Timberline Drive, leaving behind a pillowcase stuffed with jewelry and about $2,000 in cash.
One of them, identified by the police as Hernando Torres, a k a Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, was found across the street beside a sleigh and a Santa cow with a sign, “Have a Moo-ry Christmas,” at the house of a Pasadena police officer.
The other, Diego Ortiz, 30, fell on a neighbor’s lawn. Bloodstains were still visible on the sidewalk Tuesday. “The fire department did some pressure washing, but you can still see where he was,” said the neighbor, who did not want her name used. “You don’t know who is tied to them, who may still retaliate.”
The shootings in Village Grove East, where the biggest excitement is usually the comings and goings of school buses, have set off a storm of issues.
“There’s the First Amendment,” said Charles Lamont, a neighbor and a marine captain who served in Iraq, citing the protests for and against Mr. Horn that have convulsed the neighborhood. The Pasadena City Council on Tuesday gave preliminary approval to a ban on demonstrations at private residences.
Then there was Mr. Horn’s claim of self-defense under the Legislature’s reformulation of the “castle doctrine” that, as of September, no longer requires a Texan to retreat before using deadly force at his own “habitation” in the face of a perceived lethal threat. Protecting a neighbor’s property, however, is not included.
Protesters have also made race an issue. Mr. Horn is white and the burglars, he told the 911 operator, were black. Yet the neighbors whose house Mr. Horn was protecting are Vietnamese. They later said they thought the two men had been stalking them.
A police report suggests Mr. Torres and Mr. Ortiz may have been shot in the back.
And both, the police say, were illegal immigrants from Colombia, Mr. Ortiz having been deported in 1999 after being sentenced to 25 years for cocaine convictions.
Mr. Horn went into seclusion even before a death threat was left on an answering machine Sunday in the Harris County district attorney’s office. He has been too upset to comment, said his lawyer, Charles T. Lambright.
Capt. Bud Corbett, a spokesman for the Pasadena Police Department, said that Mr. Horn had cooperated with the investigation and that the police report would be ready for the district attorney by the end of next week. Then, Captain Corbett said, a grand jury will decide whether Mr. Horn will face homicide charges.
The shootings were denounced by scores of black demonstrators including Quanell X, the leader of the Houston-based New Black Panther Nation, who led a march on Dec. 2. He denounced Mr. Horn as “judge, jury and executioner” amid scuffles with white biker counter-protesters.
One vital piece of evidence is certain to be the audiotape of Mr. Horn’s 911 calls. In a low, calm and steady voice, he said he saw the men breaking in and asked: “I’ve got a shotgun; do you want me to stop them?”
The Pasadena emergency operator responded: “Nope. Don’t do that. Ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, O.K.?”
Mr. Horn said: “But hurry up, man. Catch these guys will you? Cause, I ain’t going to let them go.”
Mr. Horn then said he would get his shotgun.
The operator said, “No, no.” But Mr. Horn said: “I can’t take a chance of getting killed over this, O.K.? I’m going to shoot.”
The operator told him not to go out with a gun because officers would be arriving.
“O.K.,” Mr. Horn said. “But I have a right to protect myself too, sir,” adding, “The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.”
The operator said, “You’re going to get yourself shot.” But Mr. Horn replied, “You want to make a bet? I’m going to kill them.”
Moments later he said, “Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.”
Then he said: “Move, you’re dead.”
There were two quick explosions, then a third, and the 911 call ended..... read on about Joe Horn
What is your opinion on this - And what would be the Libertarian point of few.
The libertarian point of view?
They were trespassing and he shot them. They had broken into his neighbor's house. What's the problem?
I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.
Castle or not, these men violently aggressed a neighbors property and this man was preventing them from continuing their plunder. Then they decided to make their exit across this mans property. Besides, law enforcement regularly determines that property is worth more than shooting someone.
I love the line "“Nope. Don’t do that. Ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, O.K.?”. I wonder if the police will let the hoods come into their station or one of their houses and steal or damage property because property ain't worth shooting somebody over. Or will the state and police feel the same way if the hoods loot the tax collectors. Or hell, will the state and police feel the same way if someone decides to resist arrest for not paying their taxes. After all it is just property.
Torsten:And what would be the Libertarian point of few.
A practitioner of private law was harrassed by government officials.
Peace