From Reason Magazine. Szasz has been a great influence on my thinking about medicine and science, about what it means to be skeptical about the medical profession, what to be skeptical about and why. He had that polarizing streak not unlike Mises, but he also had a relentless passion for his subject not unlike Mises. He lived a long, fulfilling life, and even though he won't get to see the outcome of this latest uprising in the liberty movement, I believe we are capable of adequately carrying that torch.
Rest easy, and thank you, Mr. Szasz.
Sorry to hear this. Requiescat in pace.
The keyboard is mightier than the gun.
Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.
Voluntaryism Forum
Szasz was a quack.
'' The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.'' Stephen Hawking
And you're a moron.
''Are you're a moron.''
Well that says it all really.
You've had plenty of opportunities to make your case (unconvincingly, I might add) about Mr. Szasz on these forums, and I'm sure there will be plenty of other opportunities to do so. But as opposed to you showing the least bit of respect for the man's death and sitting this one out, you attempt to take a s*#t on his grave anyway. So yes, you're a moron, and that really does say it all.
I had to give up trying to make my case against you because its like arguing with someone who brain dead. Szasz was a quack, plain and simple. And I feel obliged to oppose any attempt to praise him.
I had to give up trying to make my case against you because its like arguing with someone who brain dead.
That's funny, because only the brain dead do things as stupid as you did here. Go back to the hole you came out of.
Ah yes, another ad hominem. Keep it up, you're doing great.
It's not an ad hominem since I couldn't care less about your argument, Your Logical Highness. But I'll give you credit, when you decide to go classless, there's no stopping how low you'll go.
Just an FYI, Vichy Army Ricky James Moore III whoever-else-you've-been myhumangetsme - I've reported all your posts where you've been insulting to Vladimir Ulyanov, and I will continue to do so.
Classless. Tell me how classy it is to ''shit'' on the graves of everyone who has died as a result of mental illness.
Just as an FYI Autolykos, I'm not any of those people. And I reported your post as abuse as well, since you seem to think you're the sole arbiter of who's right and wrong here.
myhumangetsme:Just as an FYI Autolykos, I'm not any of those people.
So you say. I see no reason to believe you on this yet.
myhumangetsme:And I reported your post as abuse as well, since you seem to think you're the sole arbiter of who's right and wrong here.
Yes, I'm sure that'll persuade me to change my behavior... /sarcasm
And another report.
Do I need to repeat myself? No, I don't think I do. But I do think it's funny that you believe otherwise. Oh well - whatever lets you sleep at night.
@Ulyanov: I briefly scanned a few brief snippets of that long-winded Wiseman interview. A couple things:
1) He constantly rephrases Szasz's purported ideas in his own words. If he is debunking Szasz's actual views, why not just address some specific quotes in Szasz's own words?
2) He uses at least one ad hominem / genetic fallacy when he says that Szasz's views "didn't change in 70 years since he was a teenager". What does that have to do with anything?
3) He mentions that Szasz denied the existence of diseases that are not medically measurable - but one measurement that Wiseman neglects to mention is the individual's own report of suffering. Szasz's beef is with the coercive diagnosis of "disease" when the individual himself/herself does not report any suffering. This has become an epidemic in the US.
4) He closes with reading of the Church of Scientology's practices. What the hell does that have to do with Szasz?????
"Behavior is not a disease" - Dr. Thomas Szasz
Clayton -
He closes with reading of the Church of Scientology's practices. What the hell does that have to do with Szasz?????
First sentence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_Rights
I agree with Vlad, a load a quackery. Labeling people as "drug addicts", "insane" or "obese" is the same as persecution of Jews and homosexuals? Yeah, right.
Genetic fallacy. If the Church of Scientology opens a Holocaust Museum, would you deny the Holocaust? The fact that they happen to be right in opposing psychiatry does not debunk opposition to psychiatry, nor does it constitute an advocacy of their own quack alternatives to psychiatric quackery on the part of either Szasz or the CCHR.
1) I don't know, but he isn't putting words into Szasz's mouth as far as I know.
2) I think he was referring to the progress in psychiatry which has caused most psychiatrists to change their at least some of their views. But I agree it is irrelevant.
3) Well I agree with you on this and I am against forced psychiatric treatment. Dr. Robert Sapolski touches on this somewhere in this lecture but I can't remember where. But it well worth watching, it very interesting.
4) Szasz alligned himself with the Church of Scientology even though they had conflicting views on certain things. Wiseman is asking Szasz to explain himself.
Autolykos:Just an FYI, Vichy Army Ricky James Moore III whoever-else-you've-been myhumangetsme - I've reported all your posts where you've been insulting to Vladimir Ulyanov, and I will continue to do so.
ooooOOOOOooooo. Someone ironically runs to mommy mods. What else is new.
myhumangetsme:Just as an FYI Autolykos, I'm not any of those people. And I reported your post as abuse as well, since you seem to think you're the sole arbiter of who's right and wrong here.
Is it ironic that you would said, "because its like" and "someone who brain dead." while trying to insult someone for being brain dead? I think it is.
Your Angrish skills fail you, my friend. Textual arguing requires correct syntax. Sorry to make you look like a fool.
Was that ad hominem?
And ''are you're dumb'' is alright. Why even make such a comment? You're adding nothing to this argument.
I only read a few posts of this thread. You are all idiots, in my opinion. (Telling on each other like true freedom loving anarchists...)
You obviously have a personal vendetta against the recently deceased Dr. (I now remember your "emphatic" posts on this topic before).
Just take your medication and ... I don't know maybe frequent a different forum?
+1 Malachi
Psychiatry blurs the distinction between two entirely separate issues. The first is competency, in a legal sense. Is someone competent to speak for themselves at law? If yes, then they are competent to dispose of their own medical treatments, including treatments for disturbed emotional states, etc. If not, then some single individual must be empowered to speak on behalf of the incompetent individual. The law industry should develop accepted criteria for determining competency. Whether this has anything to do with psychiatric evaluations is an open question, a priori.
The second issue is disease qua disease. The meaning of the word "disease" should be a big hint... not at ease. If there is nothing measurably wrong with your body and you are at ease, then you don't have any disease, mental or otherwise. You cannot be "declared" to have a disease like a court might declare someone to be incompetent after evaluation. Whether you have a disease or not is not a subjective question or even an expert question. Either there is something measurably wrong with you, or you feel that you are not at ease (even if the cause of the disease cannot be determined and/or measured). Otherwise, you are not diseased and for a psychiatrist to declare you to be diseased is, as Szasz correctly and insightfully notes, nothing more than social stigmatism dressed up in the garb of medicalese.
Aristophanes:I only read a few posts of this thread. You are all idiots, in my opinion. (Telling on each other like true freedom loving anarchists...)
What does "telling on each other" have to do with anarchism, exactly? This forum is private property, is it not? By your reasoning, it would be anti-freedom to "tell on" a restaurant cook who's pissing in the soup.
John James:ooooOOOOOooooo. Someone ironically runs to mommy mods. What else is new.
This coming from someone who was recently banned from the forum for three days because of his behavior...
Clayton, have you considered the possibility that there may be diseases that are in fact measurable, such as chemical imbalances of the brain, but there just isn't any measuring stick, so to speak. For instance, increased dopamine levels in schizophrenic patients, or Alzheimers that can only be definatively diagnosed after autopsy? And what if the disease itself prevents the person from feeling "not at ease," even though they clearly are (such as the schizo who mutilates his own body). What are your thoughts?
No, I liken it to a kid on a forum who is mad at another kid for SAYING SOMETHING derogatory and who wants an authority figure to stop them. You are a pussy. It is as simple as that.
@Prime: I should have been clearer - my second paragraph is "assuming you are competent to speak for yourself at law, that is, make your own medical decisions." I'm not really making any specific argument about medical science beyond the most rudimentary level. A competent individual is fit to judge for himself if he is not diseased, assuming there is nothing else measurably wrong with his body.
If you're not competent (I don't think schizos or advanced Alzheimer's patients are competent), then another person will have to be given medical decision-making authority over you.
In my view, the root issue is conflating the competency/incompetency issue with health/disease.
Aristophanes:No, I liken it to a kid on a forum who is mad at another kid for SAYING SOMETHING derogatory and who wants an authority figure to stop them. You are a pussy. It is as simple as that.
Calling other users names like "moron" and "pussy" is against the rules of this forum, is it not? Are you saying you don't like or respect the rules of this forum? Or what is it that you're saying here?
I'd also love to know what you would've done if you'd been in my shoes.
U preftë në paqe.
This has become a bitching thread despite some informative comments from Clayton and Malachi. I'm going to lock it. Anyone can start a new Szasz thread but keep it respectful and don't mud sling.
The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.
Yours sincerely,
Physiocrat