What is Dim Sum?
-Jon
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
And watch the ad homs fly...
*sigh*
Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.
LibertyStudent: Nice strawman.
Or in the libertarian future, will you allow peaceful people to trespass on your land?
Yes, the government doesn't own the land. But, for all intents and purposes in the real, flesh and blood world, they do.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
liberty student: Brainpolice:You cannot pick and choose. This is the crazy thing about the real world. You can pick and choose. You can be irrational. You can be emotional (even on YouTube!). You can be happy, sad, pensive, thoughtless, hedonistic whatever. I've got bad news for you, our opponents are not as fanatically rigid as you are. They are willing to be whatever they need to be to win.
Brainpolice:You cannot pick and choose.
This is the crazy thing about the real world. You can pick and choose. You can be irrational. You can be emotional (even on YouTube!). You can be happy, sad, pensive, thoughtless, hedonistic whatever. I've got bad news for you, our opponents are not as fanatically rigid as you are. They are willing to be whatever they need to be to win.
Which is why - even as Ayn Rand admits - they will eventually lose. And you will lose with them.
I would advise everyone here not to let people like Libby and other counter-revolutionaries drag the Anarchist movement down. Ostracizing them is best, but I would not be sad to see them executed, to be honest.
The Origins of Capitalism
And for more periodic bloggings by moi,
Leftlibertarian.org
And so the best thing to do is become exactly like one's "opponents"? Yea, that's the ticket!
liberty student: Nicky, all of your boilerplate nonsense about Paul is fascinating (and redundant, tired, worn etc.), but how come you didn't comment on Dim Sum? If you are a good boy in school and ace all of your state exams, maybe Mommy and Daddy will take you out for Dim Sum one day. After all, Dim Sum in the west, is a gift from immigrants!
Nicky, all of your boilerplate nonsense about Paul is fascinating (and redundant, tired, worn etc.), but how come you didn't comment on Dim Sum?
If you are a good boy in school and ace all of your state exams, maybe Mommy and Daddy will take you out for Dim Sum one day. After all, Dim Sum in the west, is a gift from immigrants!
Because Japanese everything > Chinese things.
Jon Irenicus: The gnat tries to snap at my heels again. Such a pesky little troll.
Wombatron: The gnat tries to snap at my heels again. Such a pesky little troll. -Jon Ah. I see what he's doing now. Sorry if it seems like I have been supporting him in his trolling Smile
The gnat tries to snap at my heels again. Such a pesky little troll. -Jon
Jon Irenicus: What is Dim Sum? -Jon
Usually the Chinese version of brunch, basically. A little more peasant though...
The most wonderful thing you can do for brunch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dim_sum
I had spring rolls, bbq pork buns, rice noodle rolls with pork, siu mai, Har Gau and potstickers! Yummy! The typical menu is 3 or 4 times larger than this.
Niccolò:Because Japanese everything > Chinese things.
Ha, and you call Ron Paul a racist!
NO!
The best tactic is to make angry YouTube videos! Carry on!
Boy are you arrogant. I simply used a line from your post because it was convenient. I'm not expecting a logical answer from you anyway.
It'd overwhelm you anyway.
Juan: Jon Irenicus: The gnat tries to snap at my heels again. Such a pesky little troll. Boy are you arrogant. I simply used a line from your post because it was convenient. I'm not expecting a logical answer from you anyway. Wombatron: The gnat tries to snap at my heels again. Such a pesky little troll. -Jon Ah. I see what he's doing now. Sorry if it seems like I have been supporting him in his trolling Smile No you don't. My post was bona-fide, you did realize that and replied accordingly. But feel free to 'support' Mr. Irenicus...
You've been needling him about Hoppe across at least 2 threads. If its not outright trolling, it is still rather rude.
To everyone knocking Ron Paul:
I agree that his immigration position isn't well thoguht out in terms of libertarianism, but I think Paul has done a great service in terms of spreading the idea of liberty. Before Paul's campaign I didn't care anything about politics. Now I still don't, but for completely different reasons as before. For me he served as a bridge to anarchy, and I have seen other posters on this web site post similar things about him. Had you come to me this time last year and said anything about anarchy, I would have brushed you off and immediately considered you a radical not worth any attention. Because of Paul's stances on issues I started looking at everything. Originally I disagreed with him about the war on drugs, then realized he was right. Because he stressed how important economics was to politics it made me interested enough to read about it here. I've started disagreeing with him on some issues (most notably immigration) but I think he still performs a valuable service in branching out to those who wouldn't pay attention if you mentioned anarchy or agorism or liberty or any other of the bad words.
Abolition is only going to come by convincing a mass of people to stop looking to the government for answers, or regarding it as an authority, either economic or moral.
Great post. Library Libertarians resent Paul, and some of the people brought to anarchism by him I think because it undoes all of their theories which justify laziness and passiveness.
There are a lot of library libertarians who write for libertarian audiences, and thus, never grow the ideology. There is nothing to be gained, blogging to people who already "get it" as David Z from No Third Solution writes on his about page.
I like Ron Paul, I think he's heroic. He's done what so many are too lazy or intimidated to do. It might not be a perfect message, but most people aren't ready for what he says, let alone anarchy.
Stolz2525: To everyone knocking Ron Paul: I agree that his immigration position isn't well thoguht out in terms of libertarianism, but I think Paul has done a great service in terms of spreading the idea of liberty. Before Paul's campaign I didn't care anything about politics. Now I still don't, but for completely different reasons as before. For me he served as a bridge to anarchy, and I have seen other posters on this web site post similar things about him. Had you come to me this time last year and said anything about anarchy, I would have brushed you off and immediately considered you a radical not worth any attention. Because of Paul's stances on issues I started looking at everything. Originally I disagreed with him about the war on drugs, then realized he was right. Because he stressed how important economics was to politics it made me interested enough to read about it here. I've started disagreeing with him on some issues (most notably immigration) but I think he still performs a valuable service in branching out to those who wouldn't pay attention if you mentioned anarchy or agorism or liberty or any other of the bad words.
And likewise, he has completely alienated young hispanics who are the most likely in the United States to support secession.
This is a cost-benefit thing now. The cost of alienating the most rapidly growing market that already possesses some relationship to your product seems rather large for the benefit of gaining a few skinny-armed teenagers who, no offense, merely act as caricatures of the paleo-conservative movement of gold-bugs and tin-foil hat wearing constitution worshipers.
Niccolò:And likewise, he has completely alienated young hispanics who are the most likely in the United States to support secession.
Source?
And are you aware of Reconquista?
liberty student: Niccolò:And likewise, he has completely alienated young hispanics who are the most likely in the United States to support secession. Source? And are you aware of Reconquista?
Yeah, in my response to your post that you ignored.
Libby, you do realize that on a whole immigrants contribute about an increase of 1-3% in the US economy right? A net increase easily defaults the "decrease" through welfare - for which I have seen absolutely no evidence. The fact is, Ron Paul isn't a libertarian. The man is a xenophobe, period. As far as the whole trade-off bull *** for "good politicans" goes, however, you really need to start pulling your head out of your *** and read something about public choice. Also, immigration is a big issue for some people and as Hispanics are the most likely to support libertarian ventures like secession, it's a net loss for libertarianism to have racists like Ron Paul associated with it.
The fact is, Ron Paul isn't a libertarian. The man is a xenophobe, period.
As far as the whole trade-off bull *** for "good politicans" goes, however, you really need to start pulling your head out of your *** and read something about public choice. Also, immigration is a big issue for some people and as Hispanics are the most likely to support libertarian ventures like secession, it's a net loss for libertarianism to have racists like Ron Paul associated with it.
I'm of the opinion that indigenous people do deserve their lands back and that they should re-take it from the government.
Your experience with Ron Paul sounds like my experience with Ayn Rand. I can criticize Ayn Rand or Ron Paul while at the same time recognizing that they do some good. They do. Just because I do not donate to the ARI anymore does not mean I think of the ARI as "the enemy", they are not. They are indeed a bridge to the land of liberty for some people even if they are inconsistent on some things. Same with Ron Paul. Just because I do not donate to the Ron Paul campaign does not mean I think of him as "the enemy". I think my hard earned money should be donated to causes more in line with my personal philosophy.
I am an eklektarchist not an anarchist.
Educational Pamphlet Mises Group
I stopped reading when you said an increase in the economy negated the decrease from welfarisim. You might have a point, except that the wealth transfer is one way from the citizens. And that the state is bankrupt from welfarism, and that debt is collectively owned by the citizens, not the illegals who can leave back to the country of their origin.
As far as a source, I wanted a source that Ron Paul has completely alienated hispanics. Do you have any proof for that statement?
liberty student: I stopped reading when you said an increase in the economy negated the decrease from welfarisim. You might have a point, except that the wealth transfer is one way from the citizens. And that the state is bankrupt from welfarism, and that debt is collectively owned by the citizens, not the illegals who can leave back to the country of their origin.
OK. This is completely incoherent.
First, if "illegals" also pay taxes - which they do - then any "costs" of welfare will be shared.
Second, you should have followed the link to learn why you're wrong on that too.
Third, the increase in production does offset welfare. If Hispanics were gone, the economy would be in significantly worse shape than if the welfare dole doubled overnight on their account - yes, the welfare you're talking about is that inconsequential to the federal budget.
Fourth, go back to "their" country? Wow, why don't you just open up a Budweiser and complain about them taken ur jabs!
liberty student: As far as a source, I wanted a source that Ron Paul has completely alienated hispanics. Do you have any proof for that statement?
If you honestly think that Ron Paul helps libertarians with hispanics now, you're insane. It's not directly proveable by positive statistics, but it's an example of common sense.
Hold on a second, you mean the open borders policy by the government is intentional?
Well gee, why would the state do that? And if the state is intentionally doing it, why would libertarians support it? So many questions!
Byzantine: ryanpatgray:they actually support the right of an innocent person to (gasp) cross a an invisible line drawn by government thugs. A more accurate formulation would be that they support the right of the immigration lobby to privatize the profits realized from immigration and to socialize its costs. Even granting (and I don't) the ideological arguments, practically speaking immigration is cultural and political suicide for libertarians; we are importing social democrats at the expense of libertarians. And from the government's perspective, they're building a centralized domestic empire, and they don't even have to go overseas to do it. Immigration is a deliberate, government-engineered expansion of the tax base and the clientele for government services. The Reason thinktank is a muddled mess. I recall them going thru some ridiculous contortions to justify US government restrictions on US citizens purchasing drugs in Canada. The only advantage I see to the current government policy of mass, indiscriminate immigration is that it will force the eventual break-up of the US empire along the fault lines separating its constituent nations, and we will finally be reversing a two-century process of centralization.
ryanpatgray:they actually support the right of an innocent person to (gasp) cross a an invisible line drawn by government thugs.
A more accurate formulation would be that they support the right of the immigration lobby to privatize the profits realized from immigration and to socialize its costs.
Even granting (and I don't) the ideological arguments, practically speaking immigration is cultural and political suicide for libertarians; we are importing social democrats at the expense of libertarians. And from the government's perspective, they're building a centralized domestic empire, and they don't even have to go overseas to do it. Immigration is a deliberate, government-engineered expansion of the tax base and the clientele for government services.
The Reason thinktank is a muddled mess. I recall them going thru some ridiculous contortions to justify US government restrictions on US citizens purchasing drugs in Canada.
The only advantage I see to the current government policy of mass, indiscriminate immigration is that it will force the eventual break-up of the US empire along the fault lines separating its constituent nations, and we will finally be reversing a two-century process of centralization.
Except very few Latinos are "social democrats" and more support secession than any White American.
Byzantine loses again.
When will you just admit you're a racist and get it over with?
All lines of property are invisible, and the fact that some are drawn by governments through expropriation does not in any way make them less real than other people's, it just makes them the product of war. That means it is quite possible that the government created a real good by drawing borders around the country, around a state, a county, a city, a town or just a post office. To abolish it would be an act of force, as destructive as the act of establishing it by the government was. We should therefore not run around claiming the right to destroy what to many people may be valuable goods, but instead seek a process by which they can become private goods, and available on the free market.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
Stranger: All lines of property are invisible, and the fact that some are drawn by governments through expropriation does not in any way make them less real than other people's, it just makes them the product of war. That means it is quite possible that the government created a real good by drawing borders around the country, around a state, a county, a city, a town or just a post office. To abolish it would be an act of force, as destructive as the act of establishing it by the government was. We should therefore not run around claiming the right to destroy what to many people may be valuable goods, but instead seek a process by which they can become private goods, and available on the free market.
If it is not a product of legitimate labour then it is not property.
To hell with whatever value you xenophobes find from it.
Byzantine: Pure BS. Latin America is one big zero-sum game over government spoils. Let me know when Guatemalans and Hondurans start complaining about all the economic refugees flooding into <i>their</i> countries.
Pure BS. Latin America is one big zero-sum game over government spoils. Let me know when Guatemalans and Hondurans start complaining about all the economic refugees flooding into <i>their</i> countries.
That the governments of latin American are corrupt has nothing to do with Latinos. It's a product of imperialists, like you.
Niccolò:First, if "illegals" also pay taxes - which they do - then any "costs" of welfare will be shared.
Do they pay all taxes, or only some?
Niccolò:Third, the increase in production does offset welfare. If Hispanics were gone, the economy would be in significantly worse shape than if the welfare dole doubled overnight on their account - yes, the welfare you're talking about is that inconsequential to the federal budget.
No it doesn't. If production paid for welfare, there would not be an unfunded liability deficit of $53+ trillion dollars. What a ridiculous thing to say!
Niccolò:Fourth, go back to "their" country? Wow, why don't you just open up a Budweiser and complain about them taken ur jabs!
Actually, I am descended from immigrants, and I was an immigrant to another country. And yes, when things went badly, I just went back home. Don't try to race bait me, you have no idea what race I am or where my sympathies lie.
Niccolò:If you honestly think that Ron Paul helps libertarians with hispanics now, you're insane. It's not directly proveable by positive statistics, but it's an example of common sense.
Do you have a source for my insanity, or are you going to continue to post unsubstantiated opinion as fact?
I know a lot of hispanics, legal and illegal supported Ron Paul in the election. So I'm just curious to know where you got this opinion, or common sense perspective, that he has completely turned off all hispanics. Could it be that you are exercising collectivism by assuming all Hispanics think and vote as an ethnic group, and not as rational individuals acting in their own self-interest?
Who is the racist now?
Niccolò: If it is not a product of legitimate labour then it is not property. To hell with whatever value you xenophobes find from it.
That line is much blurrier than you assume. Often properties that you claim to be illegitimate were built through the only available means provided by the law.
In order to understand that, one has to have built something, sold something, paid taxes, held a steady job, managed a household etc. Practical life experience. If all you have ever done is consume someone else's production, you can't relate to the compromises that people make to survive in the world under a state.
liberty student: Great post. Library Libertarians resent Paul, and some of the people brought to anarchism by him I think because it undoes all of their theories which justify laziness and passiveness. There are a lot of library libertarians who write for libertarian audiences, and thus, never grow the ideology. There is nothing to be gained, blogging to people who already "get it" as David Z from No Third Solution writes on his about page. I like Ron Paul, I think he's heroic. He's done what so many are too lazy or intimidated to do. It might not be a perfect message, but most people aren't ready for what he says, let alone anarchy.
Organizations like ISIL and The Advocates for Self Government are wonderful organizations that focus on outreach and education. I have donated to both organizations in the past. And the CATO Institute does outreach in multiple languages including languages no other libertarian organization (to my knowledge) even attempts like Arabic, Chinese and Russian. Their efforts are to grow libertarianism by spreading the message of liberty as far and wide as possible. We need to reach as many people as we can without alienating others. And hey, if we reach some “illegal immigrants” and they go back to their home nation after becoming libertarians that is fine with me. Imagine if Mexico became a more prosperous country than the United States through a series of libertarian reforms. Imagine what a boost that would be for libertarianism in the United States!
I'm a Canadian, send the libertarians up here. We need reinforcements.
I'm all for supporting the orgs. you believe in. I do the same. In fact, I think we should be setting aside profit making activities that we can use to channel funds into the organizations we approve of. Even if it's working a half day on the weekend, or doing something a couple evenings a week.
You mention Reason, Cato etc. Are you a minarchist?
Byzantine: A more accurate formulation would be that they [Reason Magazine] support the right of the immigration lobby to privatize the profits realized from immigration and to socialize its costs.
Really, I subscribe to Reason Magazine and have a big collection of back issues. Can you point me to an article where they have supported “socializing” the costs of immigration?
Byzantine: Even granting (and I don't) the ideological arguments, practically speaking immigration is cultural and political suicide for libertarians; we are importing social democrats at the expense of libertarians.
[citation needed] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed
Byzantine: And from the government's perspective, they're building a centralized domestic empire, and they don't even have to go overseas to do it. Immigration is a deliberate, government-engineered expansion of the tax base and the clientele for government services.
Ah, so that would explain the walls, cameras, fences, vehicle barriers and, of course, the border patrol. All of these things are there to INCREASE immigration.
Byzantine: The Reason thinktank is a muddled mess. I recall them going thru some ridiculous contortions to justify US government restrictions on US citizens purchasing drugs in Canada.
Really, I subscribe to Reason Magazine and have a big collection of back issues. Can you point to an article in which they take this position?
Byzantine: Not that I'm looking forward to my daughter having to witness Balkans-style armed conflicts in her own country.
The only people likely to support “Balkans-style armed conflicts” are racists and xenophobes. If it comes to that (and I don’t think it will), I will be on whatever side is in OPPOSITION to the racists and xenophobes. I don’t care if most of my opponents “look” more like me or not.
liberty student: I'm a Canadian, send the libertarians up here. We need reinforcements. I'm all for supporting the orgs. you believe in. I do the same. In fact, I think we should be setting aside profit making activities that we can use to channel funds into the organizations we approve of. Even if it's working a half day on the weekend, or doing something a couple evenings a week. You mention Reason, Cato etc. Are you a minarchist?
I am NOT a minarchist but I once was. I started out as Objectivist, then became minarchist / libertarian then anaracho-capitalist. Like I said earlier in this thread: If you are throwing the ball towards the goal you are on my team. I think that these organizations are shaking people up in their thinking and that is healthy. They are pushing people more towards the light of liberty. What they will NOT be able to do is convince an anarcho-capitalist to go the other direction. Almost all anarcho-capitalists already have heard the minarchist arguments and rejected them at some point. Have you heard of the Fraser Institute? http://www.fraserinstitute.org/