If two people consent, can they duel eachother to death?
I have had this debate before and have seen a mix of answers.
Some say it is ok becuase both people consented, others say that people can not take or give a Right.
In this example, they say dueling is taking or giving the Right to Life. The only way life can be taken is when someone is acting in defense of their own Rights.
A similar question would be can a person sign himself into slavery?
Slavery and duelling are not the same things:Slavery means you sell your self-ownership to someone else. That's not logically possible.Duelling means you will not sue your rival if anything bad happens to you in the process. That's fine with me.
if you have rights you can also choose to waive those rights. so yes, you can waive your right to life or right to self-ownership if you really wanted to. though i seriously doubt that many people would end up killing themselves or submitting to slavery if you let them.
Scott Jefferies: if you have rights you can also choose to waive those rights. so yes, you can waive your right to life or right to self-ownership if you really wanted to. though i seriously doubt that many people would end up killing themselves or submitting to slavery if you let them.
The will cannot be seperated from the body. So it's actually impossible to sell yourself into slavery, because there's no possible way you can give your will to someone else.
nibbler491:there's no possible way you can give your will to someone welse.
you clearly have never met an obama supporter.
Scott Jefferies: nibbler491:there's no possible way you can give your will to someone welse. you clearly have never met an obama supporter.
lmao
Now that is some funny stuff.
Boxing match or duel: mutual combat.
Who is the victim of this duel that has the right to ban it? There is none.
Peace
suppose a whole group of individuals contract a duel with another group of individuals. Every contract is only between two people. For some reason there is not enough space so each person decides to group with one set of participants. In the chaos, a man shoots someone that he did not legally contract with to duel with. Can this man be charged with murder?
Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots
If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?
Andrew:suppose a whole group of individuals contract a duel with another group of individuals. Every contract is only between two people. For some reason there is not enough space so each person decides to group with one set of participants. In the chaos, a man shoots someone that he did not legally contract with to duel with
Are you joking?
Sort of. But suppose this in an impossible situation. 4 people decide to duel together side by side. One man shoots the other man's opponent. would accident matter? or would only intent to violate contract constitute murder.
Its a dumb hypothetical, but in the strictest sense of principal, is it murder, or a violation of NAP
Dueling is badass.
Andrew:Sort of. But suppose this in an impossible situation. 4 people decide to duel together side by side. One man shoots the other man's opponent. would accident matter? or would only intent to violate contract constitute murder. Its a dumb hypothetical, but in the strictest sense of principal, is it murder, or a violation of NAP
Yes. I forgot which book it was but one of the Austrian author's describes a mildly similar situation in which a shooter accidentally shoots the wrong person in self-defense. The shooter is considered an aggressor and the victim can seek restitution.
Schaden13: If two people consent, can they duel eachother to death? I have had this debate before and have seen a mix of answers. Some say it is ok becuase both people consented, others say that people can not take or give a Right.
Here's a good rule of thumb: if two people consent to do something which involves their property and no one else's, then it is always - ALWAYS - permissible.
Schaden13:A similar question would be can a person sign himself into slavery?
If slavery means forfeiting one's self-ownership to another then I would say it is not even possible. On the other hand if slavery merely means selling the totality of one's labor for nothing and permitting various sorts of (what would usually be called) maltreatment, then yes, it is entirely conceivable.
Slavery in the former meaning of the word differs from duelling in that an ownership title is transferred, whereas in duelling you just die.
Diminishing Marginal Utility - IT'S THE LAW!
Dueling, provided both parties consent and both parties adhere to the mutually agreed upon ground rules of the duel, should absolutely be legal.
If individual rights are spheres of liberty and powers to control what can(not) be done with your own self and what is under your jurisdiction (ie, your property and whatever else you can rule over by contract, etc.), there is nothing to could be prevented in the said sphere of power as long as you agreed to it. Hence, rigths are by definition at the disposal of their holder, who can decide upon their (lack of) enforcement and waive them at will. So, you can duel, ask someone to maim / kill you, sell yourself in parts or as a whole, etc. etc. - you just need to have freely agreed to it for it to remain consistent with the NAP.
The alternative position accepts some (more or less extended) form of paternalism as legitimate, which negates both free will and the core idea of libertarian rights. Granted some theorists (eg, JS Mill) do make an exception for slavery; however, they do so on the basis of either an emotional or an objectivist ontological appeal. IMHO, this violates strict voluntarism and thus, if you claim to be a libertarian, logical consistency.
In principle I have to agree with you. Yet, you can not "not control" yourself. Hence selling yourself is impossible. You can sell your labor, but you can not sell yourself as an entity. Nothing paternalistic here I think.
In the begining there was nothing, and it exploded.
Terry Pratchett (on the big bang theory)
Schaden13:If two people consent, can they duel eachother to death?
Yes, but they're going to have a hard time getting insurance.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
GilesStratton: Schaden13:If two people consent, can they duel eachother to death? Yes, but they're going to have a hard time getting insurance.
But chicks dig guys who win duels so the practice will still be widespread.
Why would they want insurance?
Somebody who will willingly walk within an inch of his life is not somebody who cares about insurance.
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable."