I dont mean to bring up conspiracy thinking...But I am young, naive, and really dont know what to think about this NWO crap. heres a recent article http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090127.html
I was just very curious as to yalls personal opinions on this subject. Is it a bunch of B.S. or a serious threat to the future of our personal sovereignty?
Do some research. Draw your own conclusions.
I don't know why everybody thinks everything has to be a conspiracy. No one is saying that "all the congressmen who created and supported the ICC are creating a path WITH INTENT... to turn the U.S. into a socialist country". But things lead to the creation of that very crazy goal.
We have all been saying this kind of thing would happen for thousands of years, even the Bible eludes to something of this sort. The Road To Serfdom changed my thinking forever, because Hayek showed that policies of good intent lead to fascism. There is no conspiracy, it is just the logical outcome of things that people have done.
Man does not like to know he doesn't have control over much, so explaining something like global government as a series of very small steps will not convince anyone. There always has to be some kind of dark man behind the curtain controlling everything. Conspiracy theories are so prevalent because it is easy way to spurge action instead of academic explanation.
All men have wanted to rule the world. Some have come close. I don't know why people thinking this can happen on a global scale are rejected as nutjobs. If Ghengis Khan could rule almost half the world, why is it crazy to think it can happen with advanced technology and propaganda on a global scale.
It does not matter wether it is a conspiracy or not, what does matter is that it is happening! And if the only way to rally support to stop it is illogical and insane ramblings from a stoned anarchist, or by a very insightful man, by all means go do what you do. I will never trade my freedom for my rationalism.
200 years ago I'm sure someone said something about a world wide bank and was laughed at. But we still laugh at the guy who says the world wide bank is going to control the world economy.
Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots
If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?
with regards to things like the economic policies that lead to authoritarian socialism there doesnt need to be a conspiracy. Opinions mysteriously start converging when all the funding comes from the same place. Papers and policy suggestions that support one political outcome get more funding, and opposing research gradually dies.
I don't believe in the NWO mainly because there isn't anything new about it.They've been in control for thousands of years.It's no coincidence that both Barack and George are related nor is it a coincidence that they are related to the Medici family and Clovis.
Of course there is a conspiracy. There are armies of intellectuals in public universities conspiring with politicians to create bigger, more centralized powers for them to conquer and wield. Simply reading the historical trend is enough to show that it's pretty far along. The people who denounce conspiracy theorists are almost certainly part of the conspiracy.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
doingthisinsteadofwork: I don't believe in the NWO mainly because there isn't anything new about it.They've been in control for thousands of years.It's no coincidence that both Barack and George are related nor is it a coincidence that they are related to the Medici family and Clovis.
I am curious, what do italian aristorcrats and french kings have to do with the New World Order?
Stranger: Of course there is a conspiracy. There are armies of intellectuals in public universities conspiring with politicians to create bigger, more centralized powers for them to conquer and wield. Simply reading the historical trend is enough to show that it's pretty far along. The people who denounce conspiracy theorists are almost certainly part of the conspiracy.
I am part of that conspiracy, I admit it. You make a lot of assumptions, generalizations, and the like about what other people are thinking, its a bad world view in my opinion. I could have sworn that Austrian theory pretty much revolves around the notion that it is impossible to control such variable things as the actions of billions of people. Maybe they've just been lucky, though I tend to think it is mainly due to convincing themselves, and in extension many others that they are doing the right course of action. I've heard some telling of sympathy for an armed rebellion against the state, it would fail because unless we have the sympathy of the population, or their complacency, we'd all be in less desirable circumstances.
This is apparently a Man Talk Forum: No Women Allowed!
Telpeurion's Disliked Person of the Week: David Kramer
A year ago I was a socialist. I swooned over Chomsky. I then saw a comment on a Chosmky video, "Ron Paul America's last hope". I youtubed him and was blown away. The Foriegn Policy analysis blew me away. Then it got me thinking, what about the rest he's saying? If he's getting totally attacked by the media, "kook" "but" "gadfly" "isolationist" etc. What are his other positions?
Witnessing the media blackout first hand, its just so blatant they are controlled. The whole thing is worldwide, Ron Paul could have been the story of the political decade, if they so wished. Instead he was marginalized, defamed, censored, blacked out and ridiculed at every opportunity. (I can provide object reasons he should have been covered, yet didn't get a peep. Also empirical analysis from a TV producer, if you wish.) The media chose the president, plain as day.
More to the point; I started out thinking Alex Jones was insane, a little out there - but he promoted Ron Paul so that was ok. Anyway, its all so blatant now - you can't seriously deny there is a move towards world government, without remaining willfully ignorant of whats going on it the world.
Ron Paul Speech - One World Government
"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?
Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.
"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."
Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win""They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time""You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below... :)Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin
Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."
Also:
Pay No Attention to That Man Behind the Screen by Butler ShafferThanks to Mises Institute Media Section for this one.
Schmitto2121: I dont mean to bring up conspiracy thinking...But I am young, naive, and really dont know what to think about this NWO crap. heres a recent article http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090127.html I was just very curious as to yalls personal opinions on this subject. Is it a bunch of B.S. or a serious threat to the future of our personal sovereignty?
The European Union. Does it exist? check.The South American Union. Does it exist? check.The North American Union. Does it exist? In the process.The African Union. Does it exist? check.The Asian Pacific Union. Does it exist? Soon. Diplomat appointed by PM Rudd of Australia working on it.Look at all those nice trading blocs whose nations are losing complete national sovereignty. (Managed trade, not FREE trade) ;)Better yet; possibility of world war 3? Pakistan vs India? US vs Iran/Syria/most of middle east, Israel vs Palestine, Russia vs Georgia again?, Indonesia was talking about going to support Hamas, etc.Now ask yourselves this, what usually happens after World Wars?World War 1: League of NationsWorld War 2: United NationsWorld War 3: One world government ??:) I'd also suggest reading the Report from Iron Mountain - taken from Chp 24 in Creature from Jeykll Island.It is pretty much exactly what is happening now. Lets just say, the climate change aka man made global warming movement... ain't really about saving the environment. ;)
Definite- "serious threat to the future of our personal sovereignty."
But the REAL beauty of the Austrian School of Economics is - you don't need to talk about the NWO scum to defeat them. You don't need to mention the conspiracy aspect at all. The NWO = tyranny. You don't need to convince people that there is a political and global elite who are behind the scences trying to make this happen.
All you need to do is convince people of LIBERTY. And the best way to do that is with the Austrian School of Economics.
Telpeurion: I am part of that conspiracy, I admit it. You make a lot of assumptions, generalizations, and the like about what other people are thinking, its a bad world view in my opinion. I could have sworn that Austrian theory pretty much revolves around the notion that it is impossible to control such variable things as the actions of billions of people. Maybe they've just been lucky, though I tend to think it is mainly due to convincing themselves, and in extension many others that they are doing the right course of action.
I am part of that conspiracy, I admit it. You make a lot of assumptions, generalizations, and the like about what other people are thinking, its a bad world view in my opinion. I could have sworn that Austrian theory pretty much revolves around the notion that it is impossible to control such variable things as the actions of billions of people. Maybe they've just been lucky, though I tend to think it is mainly due to convincing themselves, and in extension many others that they are doing the right course of action.
Power is its own currency. The best bribe of all. If someone is confused about the right course of action, power can tip the balance.
Telpeurion:I could have sworn that Austrian theory pretty much revolves around the notion that it is impossible to control such variable things as the actions of billions of people.
You're missing a couple things here. First, as stated, you are correct. But the idea is not to control the actions of billions of people, but to control their political choices, and thus the law and property rights. So while you are still able to choose what you buy in the marketplace more or less, your options in the political marketplace are completely controlled. And through the use of Central Banking combined with fiat money, your property rights can be eroded silently and with no transparency.
Is it a coincidence that every country in the world has a central bank? That every country has fiat money? That the central bank heads meet and collaborate, without any oversight from their own government or media?
Or is it a surprise that Bilderberg has met for decades, with media moguls in attendance, and it was never ever mentioned, let alone covered? The most powerful political and economic celebs get together, and no one in the media shows up to take one photo?
Now, I don't believe it is "the Jews" behind it, or the lizard people from another galaxy. But to assume that power attracts only the incompetent, and that power can never organize is foolish and naive. No one (intelligent) believes that Bush ran the US for the last 8 years. The man was barely capable of making toast for breakfast.
Conza88:World War 1: League of NationsWorld War 2: United NationsWorld War 3: One world government ??
You forgot,
Napoleonic wars: Congress System.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
To have a viable conspiracy theory you have to have two criteria.
1) Someone has a goal of achieving X. (in this case NWO)
2) They are hiding, conspiring, their true agenda.
I think occam's razor is a great tool for the NWO theories.
Which is more plausible.
1) A group of men spanning generations have slowly been conspiring to create a NWO using a series of small steps over hundreds of years, rather than just go to war. And they have successfully kept the population of the earth in the dark to their true agenda, and not one single member of this elite cadre has ever come forward, even thought it would make them arguable the most famous and potentially powerful people on earth.
or
2) Things like NAFTA occur because of the belief they will be economically beneficial. That the EU formed as a way to gain competitive advantages over larger global economic powers like the USA and China.
Ixtellor
Ixtellor:and not one single member of this elite cadre has ever come forward, even thought it would make them arguable the most famous and potentially powerful people on earth
Lots of people have come forward. It's just buried or under-reported. And no, I am not going to waste time digging it up. You can google for this stuff, a lot of it is out there. Lies, speculation and the truth.
Ixtellor:Things like NAFTA occur because of the belief they will be economically beneficial. That the EU formed as a way to gain competitive advantages over larger global economic powers like the USA and China.
Sure, and the Federal Reserve was formed because the Banks were out of control. Central Banking is cartelization. These massive trade unions, seek to establish legal harmonization, so that they function as a bureaucratic arm, above elected government. That's why there is pushback in the EU over bogus stuff like the Lisbon Treaty. People are starting to realize that their MPs are ineffective, and the EU bureaucracy is writing all of the law, that supercedes all domestic law.
If you have any sense of nationalism or patriotism, you want to resist these international or multinational bodies writing laws, that you cannot vote on, cannot repeal and cannot escape. That, is tyranny.
Funny thing today..Were watching a PBS documentary video on Nixon..the phrase "Nixon invisioned a New World Order.." in it.
Ixtellor: To have a viable conspiracy theory you have to have two criteria.1) Someone has a goal of achieving X. (in this case NWO)2) They are hiding, conspiring, their true agenda.
To have a viable conspiracy theory you have to have two criteria.1) Someone has a goal of achieving X. (in this case NWO)2) They are hiding, conspiring, their true agenda.
1) Do you watch the news? Practically every leader world wide has suddenly started to call for a 'New World Order', Sarkozy and others want a new international financial system with a world central bank... Not sure how that fufills hidden agenda, it's all coming out not, because they are just about to "solve" this "crisis".
2) It's blatant... and if you didn't prefer to remain ignorant, and actually attempted to research ANY of this, that much would be clear.
Ixtellor: I think occam's razor is a great tool for the NWO theories. Which is more plausible. 1) A group of men spanning generations have slowly been conspiring to create a NWO using a series of small steps over hundreds of years, rather than just go to war. And they have successfully kept the population of the earth in the dark to their true agenda, and not one single member of this elite cadre has ever come forward, even thought it would make them arguable the most famous and potentially powerful people on earth. or 2) Things like NAFTA occur because of the belief they will be economically beneficial. That the EU formed as a way to gain competitive advantages over larger global economic powers like the USA and China.
1) They have. Never heard of Cecil Rhodes? The Fabian society? Haha. Geez, you've got a long way to go buddy. Ohh oops, forgot you're a Keynesian.
* Specifically: Future is Calling by G. Edward Griffin pg 43+
2) It is managed trade, not Free Trade. Ever heard of the Nice Treaty? How about the Lisbon Treaty? Irish voters - voting for the ENTIRE population of the Eurpeon Union (550million people) - because their countries refused to allow a referendum on the matter. Yet after it is rejected for the 2nd time! The elite continue to try shuv it down the throat of all involved. They will not stop until Ireland is part of the Union, it doesn't matter what the people say, they won't even ask the people, nor do they care! You don't think thats a blatant conspiracy against the people? Righhhht, I spouse the politicans care about their voters and do what the majority wishes, no matter what. Hmmm pity, I thought most of America (70%) wanted the war in Iraq to be over... yet it still goes on.
What's further obvious and profoundly sad, is that you refused to address any of my previous points - or even approach the matter with an open mind, subject to reason. Read the material, it comes from PRIMARY sources, until then - enjoy ignorance.
Ireland is part of the union.
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
Jon Irenicus: Ireland is part of the union.
Yes, otherwise why would they be voting on the Lisbon Treaty, which is a continuation of the Amsterdam and Nice treaties.
Instead of "joining the Union", I should have said: "further political union" - i.e adopting the European Constitution, as the countries system of supreme law.
"The decision places massive doubt over the future of the pact designed to bring more European integration.
All 27 European member states have to ratify the treaty for it to go come into force next year. So far it has been approved by 18 members including Britain, but Ireland is the only country to put it to a public vote.
The leaders of the 26 other member states watched with dismay as Ireland voted “no”, a decision that will inevitably lead to much infighting and bickering across Europe." Link.
The day the Ireland public voted "No", was a great day for Liberty and humanity. Thanks for pointing that out btw.
liberty student:Now, I don't believe it is "the Jews" behind it, or the lizard people from another galaxy.
What about Jewish lizard people?
liberty student: Lots of people have come forward. It's just buried or under-reported. And no, I am not going to waste time digging it up. You can google for this stuff, a lot of it is out there. Lies, speculation and the truth.
YEA!!! Like that famous phone call to the Fed Reserve that is present on every conspiracy website in which the super smart caller calls up the Fed President and gets him to admit to all your accusations.
Oh wait... That phone call was never confirmed... and even the guy who made it admitted he didn't record it. He "wrote down" his recollections after this supposed phone call took place. AWSOME source!!!
Did you mean those buried stories?
Democrats and Republicans have entire cadres of opposition research employees who spend their whole careers trying to catch each other in every and any major/minor infraction, but I guess EVERY single one of them is part of this VAST conspiracy by Jewish bankers.
My favorite response was from Conza88.
The 8th letter of the alphabet is H.
88 = HH = Hail Hitler.
Shocking that a guy who "Hails Hitler" Would think that there is an international banking conspiracy. I can only guess who is behind it all.... $1000 bucks says your a holocost denier.
P.S. Yes Yes, I realized I used a logical fallacy, by dismissing the Hail Hitler guy. I guess I am just an ignorant zionist propagandizer who can't see the truth.
Ixtellor:P.S. Yes Yes, I realized I used a logical fallacy, by dismissing the Hail Hitler guy. I guess I am just an ignorant zionist propagandizer who can't see the truth.
Now don't be getting all defensive on us...
Ixtellor: YEA!!! Like that famous phone call to the Fed Reserve that is present on every conspiracy website in which the super smart caller calls up the Fed President and gets him to admit to all your accusations. Oh wait... That phone call was never confirmed... and even the guy who made it admitted he didn't record it. He "wrote down" his recollections after this supposed phone call took place. AWSOME source!!! Did you mean those buried stories? Democrats and Republicans have entire cadres of opposition research employees who spend their whole careers trying to catch each other in every and any major/minor infraction, but I guess EVERY single one of them is part of this VAST conspiracy by Jewish bankers.
Quick question, WTF are you talking about?
Ixtellor:My favorite response was from Conza88. The 8th letter of the alphabet is H. 88 = HH = Hail Hitler. Shocking that a guy who "Hails Hitler" Would think that there is an international banking conspiracy. I can only guess who is behind it all.... $1000 bucks says your a holocost denier. Ixtellor P.S. Yes Yes, I realized I used a logical fallacy, by dismissing the Hail Hitler guy. I guess I am just an ignorant zionist propagandizer who can't see the truth. At the moment I am struggling to find the words that accurately portray how much of a failure you are. I guess we'll just leave your completely irrational actions to speak for themselves. I was born in 1988. And didn't realise the neo nazi's worshiped the number. It's been my handle on othersites, so I kept it. Accusing me of being a collectivist, is like accusing Keynes of being an economist. It's totally absurd. Furthermore, I assume you are older than me... so how about you start acting like an adult, instead of a child. That might help your attempted 'responses'. As for my argument, it still stands, completely UNSCATHED by your "assault". I think its rather obvious, you have no logical coherent response, so you resulted to an emotional one. Figures, must be those Keyesian animal spirits! Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof. | Post Points: 5
At the moment I am struggling to find the words that accurately portray how much of a failure you are. I guess we'll just leave your completely irrational actions to speak for themselves.
I was born in 1988. And didn't realise the neo nazi's worshiped the number. It's been my handle on othersites, so I kept it. Accusing me of being a collectivist, is like accusing Keynes of being an economist. It's totally absurd. Furthermore, I assume you are older than me... so how about you start acting like an adult, instead of a child. That might help your attempted 'responses'.
As for my argument, it still stands, completely UNSCATHED by your "assault".
I think its rather obvious, you have no logical coherent response, so you resulted to an emotional one. Figures, must be those Keyesian animal spirits!
It astonishes me that people who believe in the inefficiency in government actually have faith in the myth of governments around the world co-conspiring against their citizens.
Political Atheists Blog
liege: liberty student:Now, I don't believe it is "the Jews" behind it, or the lizard people from another galaxy. What about Jewish lizard people?
It could be the Mexican-Chinese Jews. I hadn't really considered them.
krazy kaju: It astonishes me that people who believe in the inefficiency in government actually have faith in the myth of governments around the world co-conspiring against their citizens.
It's not a myth when it's admitted.
That doesn't mean every conspiracy theory is true, but there is plenty that is considered conspiracy theory, which is actually conspiracy fact.
krazy kaju:It astonishes me that people who believe in the inefficiency in government actually have faith in the myth of governments around the world co-conspiring against their citizens.
Not every theory is based just on the government. Many of them have the government in league with powerful, private interests. Inefficiency arguments don't necessarily hold up under these conditions, since political clout is scarce and a market exists for it.
The problem with conspiracy theories is that we'll most likely never know in a timely manner just what is going on. I do think its funny though that ordinarily reasonable people will tell you that conspiracies don't exist anymore. That's right, parents don't conspire with each other to trick kids into believing in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, public schools don't conspire to teach impressionable children that marijuana will kill them, etc.
I don't think anybody has claimed that the moment an individual begins to by employed by the government they become less efficient.
A conspiracy theory isn't necessary to establish the existance of power elites. The problem with many conspiracy theories is that they overcomplicate matters and try to reduce power elitism to an organization or two. This often ends up being too narrow - trying to reduce power elitism to a single group like "The Rothschilds", "The Jewish Bankers", "The NWO", "The Illuminati", and so on. A single group does not logically or logistically have the capability to single-handedly control the entire fate of everyone on the planet (an information problem exists).
Another point is that if people are able to figure it out to begin with, then obviously it's not much of a conspiracy, it's fairly out in the open.
Conza88: Schmitto2121: I dont mean to bring up conspiracy thinking...But I am young, naive, and really dont know what to think about this NWO crap. heres a recent article http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090127.html I was just very curious as to yalls personal opinions on this subject. Is it a bunch of B.S. or a serious threat to the future of our personal sovereignty? The European Union. Does it exist? check.The South American Union. Does it exist? check.The North American Union. Does it exist? In the process.The African Union. Does it exist? check.The Asian Pacific Union. Does it exist? Soon. Diplomat appointed by PM Rudd of Australia working on it.Look at all those nice trading blocs whose nations are losing complete national sovereignty. (Managed trade, not FREE trade) ;)Better yet; possibility of world war 3? Pakistan vs India? US vs Iran/Syria/most of middle east, Israel vs Palestine, Russia vs Georgia again?, Indonesia was talking about going to support Hamas, etc.Now ask yourselves this, what usually happens after World Wars?World War 1: League of NationsWorld War 2: United NationsWorld War 3: One world government ??:) I'd also suggest reading the Report from Iron Mountain - taken from Chp 24 in Creature from Jeykll Island.It is pretty much exactly what is happening now. Lets just say, the climate change aka man made global warming movement... ain't really about saving the environment. ;) Definite- "serious threat to the future of our personal sovereignty." But the REAL beauty of the Austrian School of Economics is - you don't need to talk about the NWO scum to defeat them. You don't need to mention the conspiracy aspect at all. The NWO = tyranny. You don't need to convince people that there is a political and global elite who are behind the scences trying to make this happen. All you need to do is convince people of LIBERTY. And the best way to do that is with the Austrian School of Economics.
You are right on Conza, I was thinking the same thing...
It's sad that People would rather feel all warm good and fuzzy inside then to know the truth. The problem is that the majority of people don't know that emotion exploitation is a 2000 plus years polititical/religion technique.Obama used this technique in his campaign using the words hope and change and change meaning a growing and more powerful goverment and then a world goverment. My point is that change is not always good lol!
liberty student: Telpeurion:I could have sworn that Austrian theory pretty much revolves around the notion that it is impossible to control such variable things as the actions of billions of people. You're missing a couple things here. First, as stated, you are correct. But the idea is not to control the actions of billions of people, but to control their political choices, and thus the law and property rights. So while you are still able to choose what you buy in the marketplace more or less, your options in the political marketplace are completely controlled. And through the use of Central Banking combined with fiat money, your property rights can be eroded silently and with no transparency. Is it a coincidence that every country in the world has a central bank? That every country has fiat money? That the central bank heads meet and collaborate, without any oversight from their own government or media? Or is it a surprise that Bilderberg has met for decades, with media moguls in attendance, and it was never ever mentioned, let alone covered? The most powerful political and economic celebs get together, and no one in the media shows up to take one photo? Now, I don't believe it is "the Jews" behind it, or the lizard people from another galaxy. But to assume that power attracts only the incompetent, and that power can never organize is foolish and naive. No one (intelligent) believes that Bush ran the US for the last 8 years. The man was barely capable of making toast for breakfast.
I don't think the "Jews" or the lizard people aka the "Dracos are behind it either. Saying that the "Jews" are behind it, is Jew baiting at it's finest. "jews are just the pawns like everyone else! Did you know that the "Jews" was the Popes Banker ever since there was a Pope? Source: http://www.vaticanassassins.org/
The thing that gets me about this alein thing is that there is a mayan painting with an alien beig in it, It's probably fake, or perhaps the painting is like any other painting-the Artists absract of something/reality or something. I have a Guayanese friend that believes some shape shifting people who live in the Center of the earth are responsible, no joke. she has a hard time believing that humans can be the cause of it.