As you know Sydicalist Anarchism is of the largest, if not the largest branch of anarchism, in the world. But it is also in my opinion one of the most flawed political theories out there, filled with dogmatism, bad economics, sacred cows, and major revisions to history. Many of its adherents are extremely pretensious, and act as if only themselves and the people they agree with are anarchist and their allies. With that said, I think it is time for myself to become well read in critiques in order to solidify my position, and be able to hold my own with these idiots and shut them up when they try to tell me that I am not an anarchist. So hear are the four subjects of Syndicalist Anarchism that I hope you can provide excellent critiques of :
1. Political and social theory.
2. Economic theory of ideal society and criticism of capitalism.
3. Syndicalist examples of historical models. (Specifically of Spanish anarchist of the Civil War.)
4. Excellent Critiques of Naom Chomsky, and by excellent I mean critics who thoroughly understand the man's life, political beliefs, and political theories. He is significant seeing as many syndicalist see him as some kind of Messiah.
Any articles, literature, or lectures would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
There really isn't any need for a "special" critique of anarcho-syndicalism. It is simply an outgrowth of trade unionism and Marxism: they use surplus value theory, alienation, etc. to support a move towards an industrial system supported by "workplace democracy" (trade unionism). If you critique Marxian and unionist fallacies, you destroy anarcho-syndicalism.
Political Atheists Blog
Nozick has a grade A criticism of syndicalism in ASU.
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
krazy kaju: There really isn't any need for a "special" critique of anarcho-syndicalism. It is simply an outgrowth of trade unionism and Marxism: they use surplus value theory, alienation, etc. to support a move towards an industrial system supported by "workplace democracy" (trade unionism). If you critique Marxian and unionist fallacies, you destroy anarcho-syndicalism.
Well specifically I want articles on the Syndicalist's celebrated Spanish Civil War and their sacred coW, Naom Chomsky.
BrainPolice has a fairly decent critique of Chomsky on his Youtube channel
!!!
liberty student: BrainPolice has a fairly decent critique of Chomsky on his Youtube channel
Yes it was a good intro, but now I need something that will shut the Chomsky-bots up for good.
Jon Irenicus: !!!
This is the second time recently you, infer that I am close minded, or reveal that you don't know me. If you have a specific criticism, by all means make it.
Re: BP's video, it's decent, not great. Some of it sounds like BP is arguing that Chomsky has socialism wrong, that market anarchy is the better way to Chomsky's ends, rather than refuting both his means and ends.
Personally, I would get some of Chomsky's material and start building your own critique. I don't think arguing someone else's position is very beneficial. You have to understand what is wrong on your own, and come at it from your own angle. Regurgitating other people's arguments leads to stagnation (see Marxism).
Militant environmentalists (PETArds) are what have me worried.
Eric: Militant environmentalists (PETArds) are what have me worried.
From my experience, many of them tend to be syndicalist.
Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here.
Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_ownership
do we get free cheezeburger in socielism?
wombatron:Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here.
I have it bookmarked, andfrom what I've read so far it is absolutely excellent. Maybe shouid also educate myself more on the frivolous charge of "wage slavery" that syndicalist love to yap about.
Nick. B: wombatron:Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here. I have it bookmarked, andfrom what I've read so far it is absolutely excellent. Maybe shouid also educate myself more on the frivolous charge of "wage slavery" that syndicalist love to yap about.
These are the 'anarchists' who outlawed money and went on a murder spree against clergy. When the sydicalists defend them, their statist colors are exposed for all to see.
An excellent piece.
sicsempertyrannis: Nick. B: wombatron:Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here. I have it bookmarked, andfrom what I've read so far it is absolutely excellent. Maybe shouid also educate myself more on the frivolous charge of "wage slavery" that syndicalist love to yap about. These are the 'anarchists' who outlawed money and went on a murder spree against clergy. When the sydicalists defend them, their statist colors are exposed for all to see. An excellent piece.
Yeah the more I research Syndicalist Anarchism, the more it becomes clear that it is just as big of bullshit as National Anarchism.
they are not really anarchists but participatory democrats. imo no collectivist anarchist has been able to formulate an image where there are no tribalistic "meetings" held all the time.
liberty student:Personally, I would get some of Chomsky's material and start building your own critique. I don't think arguing someone else's position is very beneficial. You have to understand what is wrong on your own, and come at it from your own angle. Regurgitating other people's arguments leads to stagnation (see Marxism).
Agreed. The best way is to argue people who hold those views, research their positions, and then proceed to destroy them.
fezwhatley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_ownership
Win.
krazy kaju: liberty student:Personally, I would get some of Chomsky's material and start building your own critique. I don't think arguing someone else's position is very beneficial. You have to understand what is wrong on your own, and come at it from your own angle. Regurgitating other people's arguments leads to stagnation (see Marxism). Agreed. The best way is to argue people who hold those views, research their positions, and then proceed to destroy them.
Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read?
Nick. B:Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read?
Are you looking for works specifically on anarcho-syndicalism, or libertarian socialism in general?
In my anarcho-syndicalist days, I read Daniel Guerin's (sp?) "Anarchism." Pretty good book.
wombatron: Nick. B:Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read? Are you looking for works specifically on anarcho-syndicalism, or libertarian socialism in general?
Anarcho-syndicalism. Maybe three or four foundational books on that school of thought.
Ideally. but not everyone is capable of that.
Nick. B: wombatron: Nick. B:Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read? Are you looking for works specifically on anarcho-syndicalism, or libertarian socialism in general? Anarcho-syndicalism. Maybe three or four foundational books on that school of thought.
Could ahybody suggest any?
Nick. B:Could ahybody suggest any?
As crazy as this sounds, why not ask a syndicalist? I mean, you're best arguing the material that they are going to fall back on, right?
liberty student: Nick. B:Could ahybody suggest any? As crazy as this sounds, why not ask a syndicalist? I mean, you're best arguing the material that they are going to fall back on, right?
Tried it. All of them are more or less vague or differ. Some say that it merely differs in means to reaching anarchism, but others say that advocates direct democracy of the workers.
Syndicalism is such complete laughable nonsense that it hardly even warrants a rebuttal.
But since you asked :)
Syndical Syndrome by (I believe) Murray Rothbard
http://www.mises.org/journals/lf/1971/1971_06.pdf
Chomsky's Economics by James Ostrowski
http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1132
The Coercive Anarchism of Noam Chomsky by Barry Loberfield
http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2003_02/loberfeld-chomsky.html
And last but not least, Mises' brilliant assault on so-called syndicalism:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Mises/HmA/msHmA33.html
Enjoy!
Nick. B: Nick. B: wombatron: Nick. B:Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read? Are you looking for works specifically on anarcho-syndicalism, or libertarian socialism in general? Anarcho-syndicalism. Maybe three or four foundational books on that school of thought. Could ahybody suggest any?
Anarcho-syndicalism: Theory and Practice
Chomsky on Anarchism
Also, works by 19th century anarchists such as Proudhon, Bakunin, Goldman, and Kropotkin may be referenced, and can generally be found online.
wombatron: Nick. B: Nick. B: wombatron: Nick. B:Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read? Are you looking for works specifically on anarcho-syndicalism, or libertarian socialism in general? Anarcho-syndicalism. Maybe three or four foundational books on that school of thought. Could ahybody suggest any? Anarcho-syndicalism: Theory and Practice Chomsky on Anarchism Also, works by 19th century anarchists such as Proudhon, Bakunin, Goldman, and Kropotkin may be referenced, and can generally be found online.
Thanks.
Nick. B: Do any of you know of the main books on the political theory of Syndicalist Anarchism that syndicalist read?
Daniel Guerin's "Anarchism: From Theory to Practice" is what converted me from a borderline leftist to an anarcho-syndicalist in my wee days. Kropotkin's "Anarchism" is also good, since it contains various articles on various aspects of anarcho-syndicalist thought.
There's also a shorter work by Rudolf Rocker called "Anarchism and Anarcho-Syndicalism" - http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/rocker-rudolf/misc/anarchism-anarcho-syndicalism.htm
wombatron: Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here.
Have you read the reply to his article here: http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/spain/sp001532.html ?
The state is a disease and Liberty is the both the victim and the only means to a lasting cure.
ThorsMitersaw: wombatron: Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here. Have you read the reply to his article here: http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/spain/sp001532.html ?
No I have not. Hey are you the ThorMitersaw that made videos? If I may ask, why did you stop?
krazy kaju:Daniel Guerin's "Anarchism: From Theory to Practice" is what converted me from a borderline leftist to an anarcho-syndicalist in my wee days. Kropotkin's "Anarchism" is also good, since it contains various articles on various aspects of anarcho-syndicalist thought.
What about it attracted you? What arguments of Guerin's were most persuasive to you? And what specifically caused your later shift?
To everyone in general:
What do you think about nonviolent, nonstatist forms of worker's self-management?
By which I mean, free market unions; worker's co-operatives; nonviolent syndicates; etc.?
PyrrhonianSkeptic: To everyone in general: What do you think about nonviolent, nonstatist forms of worker's self-management? By which I mean, free market unions; worker's co-operatives; nonviolent syndicates; etc.?
Some basic anarcho-syndicalist propaganda (using that in the neutral sense of the term):
http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/archive/display/150/index.php
http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/archive/display/152/index.php
And does anyone know of any books on syndicalism / anarcho-syndicalism besides Rocker's A-S: Theory and Practice, and his shorter A & A-S?
PyrrhonianSkeptic: Some basic anarcho-syndicalist propaganda (using that in the neutral sense of the term): http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/archive/display/150/index.php http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/archive/display/152/index.php
And incidentally, here is Rocker's Anarcho-Syndalism online: http://libcom.org/library/anarcho-syndicalism-rudolf-rocker
and here is Daniel Guerin's Anarchy: From Theory to Practice also: http://libcom.org/library/anarchism-daniel-guerin
PyrrhonianSkeptic: What do you think about nonviolent, nonstatist forms of worker's self-management? By which I mean, free market unions; worker's co-operatives; nonviolent syndicates; etc.?
I think they are fine if they are voluntary, but I suspect they will largely be useless in a free market. They are fairly anachronistic.
For example, a free market union would have to allow workers to come and go, and to negotiate with "the company" independently if they so chose. This undermines solidarity, which sounds great in a union hall or on a blog network, but is difficult to translate into voluntary consent to a cartel that may not always represent the worker's best interest.
I have been watching Tom Woods 10 lecture American history presentation here at Mises.org and iirc, it was #6 or 7 that deals with labor history in the US. I suspect anarcho-syndicalists have been fed a lot of baloney that doesn't reflect a broader view of the events and circumstances surrounding the early labour movements in the US.
http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=79
http://mises.org/multimedia/video/Woods/Woods7.wmv
Iain McKay:In the last section, we quoted von Mises on the basic philosophy of right Libertarianism, namely if reality contradicts your theory, ignore reality.
Where do they get this rubbish? They spout that line all the time.
Because their comprehension of epistemology and methodology is approximately zero?
Paul: ThorsMitersaw: wombatron: Bryan Caplan has an article on the Spanish Civil War here. Have you read the reply to his article here: http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/spain/sp001532.html ? Iain McKay:In the last section, we quoted von Mises on the basic philosophy of right Libertarianism, namely if reality contradicts your theory, ignore reality. Where do they get this rubbish? They spout that line all the time.
McKay is awful; he rejects the whole of individualist and market anarchism (including Carson's market mutualism) as being either inconsistent anarchism, or not anarchism at all, with plenty of selective out-of-context quotes from Proudhon, Spencer, Spooner, Tucker, de Cleyre, Molinari, and Rothbard to back him up.
wombatron: McKay is awful; he rejects the whole of individualist and market anarchism (including Carson's market mutualism) as being either inconsistent anarchism, or not anarchism at all, with plenty of selective out-of-context quotes from Proudhon, Spencer, Spooner, Tucker, de Cleyre, Molinari, and Rothbard to back him up.
So when I do read McKay's response to Caplan's essay I shouldn't take it to seriously?