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Do minimum wages raise employment?

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process posted on Fri, Aug 14 2009 3:14 PM

Addison et al (2009, Do minimum wages raise employment? Evidence from the U.S. retail-trade sector, Labour Economics, Vol. 16 Issue 4, pp 397-408 ) have kindly confirmed the rejection of the whinge'n'whine over minimum wage disemployment effects:

This paper examines the impact of minimum wages on earnings and employment in selected branches of the retail-trade sector, 1990–2005, using county-level data on employment and a panel regression framework that allows for county-specific trends in sectoral outcomes. We focus on specific subsectors within retail trade that are identified as particularly low-wage. We find little evidence of disemployment effects once we allow for geographic-specific trends. Indeed, in many sectors the evidence points to modest (but robust) positive employment effects

Those that support the elimination of minimum wages are therefore effectively demanding greater unemployment.

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nirgrahamUK:

my theory is that umbrellas cause rain, look at the data for umbrella ownership against precipitation analysed across geographic regions....

 

what you have is lies, damned lies or statistics...

You'd have a point if we had the abuse of raw data or the use of data mining techniques. We do not. We have the correct use of the empirical process, using theory to construct hypothesis and then referring to econometrics to test for robustness. For a website that typed "I can show you where they went wrong", its a shame that you guys haven't made one valid criticism.

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haha, its your study! 

wow.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

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xahrx replied on Mon, Aug 17 2009 8:17 AM

There have been several valid criticisms.  One, correlation does not mean causation.  Two, there are plenty of other causes that may lead to higher employment despite a minimum wage increase, and there is no scientific way to account for these causes and control for them.  Three, there is no way to predict where and when the effects of a minimum wage hike will cause disemployment.  Unless the authors have been to Delphi and consulted an oracle,  Four, sayinfg they've used the proper empirical method begs the question of whether or not it is even applicable/effective for the situation.  Five, a problem arises because, if true, this means marginal utility is not a law but a circumstance and the last century's worth of economic thought  from the marginal revolution on needs to be reworked.  Six, I'd be very interested to see the study followed through and to count from 2005 on to what happened after the nice inflationary boom ended and the whole economy popped and did fart circles around the construction sector.  Seven, the key weakness to all 'studies' done on minimum wage and unemployment: they don't have to account for jobs already lost.  It's analogous to dropping a bomb on a town and only counting the deaths that occur after the smoke clears and/or within a certain predetermined perimeter.  That may be an accepted empirical method for a bunch of state educated/paid toads who can't think themselves out of a paper bag, doesn't hold water for me.

"I was just in the bathroom getting ready to leave the house, if you must know, and a sudden wave of admiration for the cotton swab came over me." - Anonymous
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Quote:
There have been several valid criticisms. One, correlation does not mean causation.
Nope! Its provides a hypothesis test based on valid theory. That is supports that theory means it cannot be rejected. Standard econometric tests are also used to tests for empirical bias.

Quote:
Two, there are plenty of other causes that may lead to higher employment despite a minimum wage increase, and there is no scientific way to account for these causes and control for them.
Nope! The panel data technique adopted ensures that the paper can control for both time variant and invariant factors that also impact on employment rates.

Quote:
Three, there is no way to predict where and when the effects of a minimum wage hike will cause disemployment.
The approach adopted controls for where the minimum wage is not binding. Thus, it is a straight forward test of the orthodox disemployment effect and the employment effect based on monopsony or efficiency wage criteria. The only aspect is that we cannot distinguish the extent that the positive effect is due to monopsony and the extent it is due to efficiency wages.

Quote:
Four, sayinfg they've used the proper empirical method begs the question of whether or not it is even applicable/effective for the situation.
This is deliberately vague twaddle. The approach is quite appropriate and of course has been through the peer review process. If you'd like to actually refer to a methodological flaw, then be my guest!

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Five, a problem arises because, if true, this means marginal utility is not a law but a circumstance and the last century's worth of economic thought from the marginal revolution on needs to be reworked.
This is nonsense. Marginal utility will inform us of many factors such as the law of demand. It doesn't have any bearing on disputing the validity of the monopsony approach. Indeed, by referring to the opportunity cost of employment, it can actually be used to support the prection of employment gains.

Quote:
Six, I'd be very interested to see the study followed through and to count from 2005 on...
That would be easily done. Given the extensive panel period chosen, it is highly unlikely that the results would significantly be affected. Typically, such an exercise would be undertaken by Post-Grads as they update data for their Master's dissertation.

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Seven, the key weakness to all 'studies'done on minimum wage and unemployment: they don't have to account for jobs already lost.
Given the paper refers to employment levels, you haven't got a point (You wouldn't have one either if we were referring to unemployment. The hypothesis testing process remains intact)

You still haven't made one relevant rebuke!
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my critcism is simply that you arent doing economics. as to whatever it is you are doing and the value you place on that... i simply dont value it, so i dont care to critique it either way.  

 

but its not economics.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

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The real minimum wage in dollar terms is zero. Everything else is determined by the market participants. If you place the limit for certain jobs above what the employers are willing to pay, they'll hire fewer people - hence, more unemployment. It's really quite obvious, you don't need any studies to know it.

It's especially true in case of young and unskilled workers and various ethnical and religious minorities. Thomas Sowell points out that prior to 1950s unemployment of black laborers wasn't higher than that of whites despite well-known prejudice and lack of the anti-discrimination laws. Most employers simply couldn't afford turning away qualified blacks as this would mean holding a job position unfilled for longer and incurring more losses as a result. However, when they started to jack up minimum wage in late 1940s black unemployment started to rise since now it didn't cost anything to employers to discriminate against minorities. Government "help" only makes the situation worse for the recipients of such "generosity".

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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This is like supply-side laffer curve nonsense.  The problem with laffer curves, is that I don't find them very funny.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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filc replied on Tue, Aug 18 2009 2:30 PM

Since the retail industry has ballooned due to the credit expansion policy it's stupid to use the retail industry as the base industry to find a coorelation of  un-employment.

 

America's top industry is retail right now, this is directly because of our monetary policy. We encourage people to buy crap rather then save money. With walmart up in the fortune 500 list and other retail shops pulling in big numbers why would you use that sector as your basis to find un-employment?

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process:
Those that support the elimination of minimum wages are therefore effectively demanding greater unemployment.

Not necessarily.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Answered (Not Verified) Alice replied on Tue, Aug 18 2009 3:00 PM
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process:

This paper examines the impact of minimum wages on earnings and employment in selected branches of the retail-trade sector, 1990–2005, using county-level data on employment and a panel regression framework that allows for county-specific trends in sectoral outcomes. We focus on specific subsectors within retail trade that are identified as particularly low-wage. We find little evidence of disemployment effects once we allow for geographic-specific trends. Indeed, in many sectors the evidence points to modest (but robust) positive employment effects

Ceteris paribus, it is impossible for a raise in price to increase demand.  One of the uses of economic reasoning is to enable us to perceive whether or not any of the given possible explanations for historical facts is plausible or possible.  Employment can increase simultaneously with raises in minimum wage, but it is untenable to attribute this rise to an increase in minimum wage.  Such an increase must lower the demand for wage-labor, to the extent it does anything whatsoever.  Whether other effects increase demand is another question altogether.

"The first Accounts we have of Mankind are but so many Accounts of their Butcheries.
All Empires have been cemented in Blood..."

- Edmund Burke, A Vindication of Natural Society

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Quote:
The real minimum wage in dollar terms is zero.
Clearly wrong, as shown by the evidence into poverty reduction effects from the minimum wage (plus those employment gains you cannot reject, given both theory and empirical evidence supports it existence)

Quote:
It's really quite obvious, you don't need any studies to know it.
Actually the only way that you can use supply and demand to support your position is by making two ludicrous assumptions. First, you have to assume zero job search frictions (and therefore no monopsony). Second, you have to assume that the employment of labour involves a purely technical relationship (thus ending all issues of efficiency wages). Quite ludicrous of course!

Quote:
...it didn't cost anything to employers to discriminate against minorities
You're on a loser with this one too. For example, the biggest aspect of discrimination applicable to the minimum wage is gender orientated. And guess what? The minimum wage is found to reduce inefficient gender wage differentials.


Still no valid rebuke from you!
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  Quote:

Since the retail industry has ballooned due to the credit expansion policy it's stupid to use the retail industry as the base industry to find a coorelation of un-employment.
You've already been educated in the explanation of focusing on the retail industry: the high % of minimum wage workers should maximise the chances of finding any significant effects. Concerns over credit expansion are nonsense, given the panel technique controls for these sort of time variant factors. You've already been told that, so no excuses for peddling more mistakes!
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nirgrahamUK:

haha, its your study! 

wow.

You're still running full pelt from content. Perhaps you'd like to offer a critique of either the monopsony or efficiency wage explanations for the 'positive employment' finding?

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nirgrahamUK:

my critcism is simply that you arent doing economics. as to whatever it is you are doing and the value you place on that... i simply dont value it, so i dont care to critique it either way.  

 

but its not economics.

Still no content? Perhaps you'd like to refer to the work by Burdett and Mortensen (1998, Wage differentials, employer size, and unemployment. International Economic Review)? Here, we only have to acknowledge that workers are heterogeneous with regards their opportunity costs of employment (i.e. value leisure differently) for the minimum wage to raise employment

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im not going to critique what doesnt even pretend to be economics. i am interested in economics.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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