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An Anarchist critique of Anarcho-Statism:'Anarcho'-Capitalism and Anarchism.

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AnonLLF Posted: Sun, Feb 27 2011 9:32 AM
 


One of the strangest things most anarchists become aware of when they go on-line is the existence of self-proclaimed capitalist "anarchists." Mostly based in North America, this ideology claims to be anarchist while, at the same time, vigorously supporting laissez-faire capitalism.



For almost all anarchists, this seems an utter oxymoron. Anarchism has always been associated with the left, with socialism. While opposing all forms of state socialism, anarchists have always seen themselves as anti-capitalists, as socialists. Both Tucker and Kropotkin considered themselves socialists, as did Bakunin and Proudhon. While they disagreed about many things (such as how best to end capitalist exploitation), all schools of anarchism shared a common opposition to profit, interest and rent and a common root in Proudhon's critique of private property.



The idea that there is a form of anarchism which is not anti-capitalist thus strikes anarchists as extremely strange. The idea of capitalists raising the black flag, the flag of working class insurrection and strikes, is a joke, a joke in extremely bad taste. "Anarcho"-capitalists of course disagree. It is, therefore, useful to give a short explanation of why "anarcho"-capitalism should be called "anarcho-statism" to better show its inherent contradictions.



What's in a name?

The first line of defence of "anarcho"-capitalism is to argue that the dictionary definition of anarchy is "no government." Consequently, as "anarcho"-capitalism wants to replace the state by a free market in defence associations it must be anarchist.



This argument is obviously flawed. Many dictionaries define "anarchy" as, for example, "a state of lawlessness and disorder (usually resulting from a failure of government)." [1] Needless to say, anarcho-capitalists do not use these definitions of "anarchy." So appealing to dictionary definitions is highly subjective as it involves evaluating each dictionary in turn and discarding those which are inaccurate.



This can be seen from the question of anarchism and socialism. Both Kropotkin and Tucker considered their ideas as a form of socialism. However, using typical dictionary definitions of both would result in a contradiction. Anarchism is defined as "a political theory favouring the abolition of governments" while socialism is "a political theory advocating state ownership of industry" or "an economic system based on state ownership of capital." [2] Which means that an anarchist could not be a socialist yet "anarcho"-capitalists are happy to call anarchists "anarcho-socialists." This contradiction is enough, in itself, to show the flaw in their methodology. Why should the dictionary be good enough for "anarchy" but not for "socialism"? [3]



As it stands, anarchists have rarely, if ever, argued that they were simply aiming to abolish the state. From Proudhon onward, they have stressed social and economic goals along with political ones. It is no coincidence that the first self-proclaimed anarchist book was "What is Property?" rather than "What is Government?" To limit "anarchy" or "anarchism" to just a question of the state means to ignore most of what anarchists and anarchism have aimed for. That is why anarchists generally avoid dictionary definitions for "anarchy" and "anarchism" and argue instead that it is not enough for someone to call themselves an anarchist, their ideas must reflect the anti-state and anti-capitalist principles the anarchist movement has always held.



Who cares what they thought?

That "anarcho"-capitalism abuses the history of anarchism goes without saying. What is strange that they also abuse their own self-proclaimed intellectual forefathers.



"Anarcho"-capitalists generally trace their ideology back to French economist Gustave de Molinari (1819 to1912). Given that anarchism as a political theory and movement was born in France during his lifetime, is significant that he did not call himself an anarchist nor take part in the movement. If he had considered his ideas as anarchist then surely he would have called them that. We can only conclude that it was the existence of the anarchist movement and its ideas that ensured that Molinari refused the label of "anarchist" as he did not consider his ideas part of either.



Others retroactively included by "anarcho"-capitalists in their ideology's family tree are supporters of so-called "voluntaryism." These were 19th century British individualists, supporters, like Molinari, of extreme laissez-faire capitalism. Like Molinari, they did not call their ideas anarchism or themselves anarchists. Auberon Herbert, for example, explicitly rejected the term anarchist. Another, Levy, stated that "no Individualist would ever call himself an Anarchist." He also noted that while individualist and communist anarchists disagreed on many subjects "their agreement [on others] entitled them equally to the general designation of Anarchist." [5]



Significantly, Herbert, knew of, and rejected, individualist anarchism, considering it to be "founded on a fatal mistake" and would result in "pandemonium." He thought that we should "not direct our attacks - as the anarchists do - against all government, against government in itself" but "only against the overgrown, the exaggerated, the insolent, unreasonable and indefensible forms of government, which are found everywhere today." Government should be "strictly limited to its legitimate duties in defense of self-ownership and individual rights." He stressed that "we are governmentalists," aiming for a government "formally constituted by the nation, employing in this matter of force the majority method." [6]



Now, it seems significant that people "anarcho"-capitalists themselves place in their ideological tree, at best, refused to be called or, at worse, explicitly denied being anarchists. They were obviously aware of anarchism and anarchist ideas and saw that their ideas were not similar. Why "anarcho"-capitalists refuse to do the same is lost on anarchists, particularly as not doing so means they have to continually explain why they are not like the anarchists who get in the news or in the history books.



Moreover, it seems a strange form of complement to incorporate someone into your ideology's family tree while also ignoring these people's expressed opinions and say they did not understand what they advocated! Between, say, Auberon Herbert and an "anarcho"-capitalist, I think most people would agree with Herbert on what he thought his ideas should be called.



And the difference is?

It is no coincidence that "anarcho"-capitalists try to limit the definition of anarchy or anarchism purely to opposition to the state or government. This is because capitalist property produces authoritarian structures (and so social relations) exactly like the state. By focusing on "government" rather than "authority," they hide the basic contradiction within their ideology namely that the "anarcho"-capitalist definition of private property is remarkably close to its definition of the state.



This is easy to prove. For example, leading "anarcho"-capitalist Murray Rothbard thundered against the evil of the state, stressing that it "arrogates to itself a monopoly of force, of ultimate decision-making power, over a given territorial area." Then, in the chapter's endnote, he quietly admitted that "[o]bviously, in a free society, Smith has the ultimate decision-making power over his own just property, Jones over his, etc." [6]



Opps. How did the editor not pick up that one? But it shows the magical power of the expression "private property" - it can turn the bad ("ultimate decision-making power" over a given area) into the good ("ultimate decision-making power" over a given area). For anarchists, "[t]o demonise state authoritarianism while ignoring identical albeit contract-consecrated subservient arrangements in the large-scale corporations which control the world economy is fetishism at its worst." [7] It should also be stressed that capitalist authoritarianism is dictatorial in nature, with significantly less freedom than that in a democratic state.



Anarchists, obviously, wonder what the difference actually is. Why is the authority of the state considered anti-anarchist while that of the property owner is not? Rothbard did provide an answer: the state has got its land "unjustly." Thus the answer lies in whether the state legitimately owns its territory or not. If it did, then "it is proper for it to make rules for everyone who presumes to live in that area . . . So long as the State permits its subjects to leave its territory, then, it can be said to act as does any other owner who sets down rules for people living on his property." [8]



So if the state were a legitimate landlord or capitalist then its authoritarianism would be fine? Sorry? This is an anarchist analysis? The question is, ultimately, one of liberty. Anarchists simply note that Rothbard himself shows that capitalism and the state are based on the same authority structures and, consequently, neither can be considered as anarchist.



But then again, anarchists are not surprised. The liberal tradition "anarcho"-capitalism happily places itself in has a long history of sophisticated defences for autocracy based on consent. Anarchists, in contrast, have always stressed that the internal regime of an association which is the key.



That is why anarchists support workplace co-operatives as the alternative to capitalist hierarchy. Proudhon, for example, argued that employees are "subordinated, exploited" and their "permanent condition is one of obedience." Capitalist companies "plunder the bodies and souls of wage workers" and are "an outrage upon human dignity and personality." However, in a co-operative the situation changes and the worker is an "associate" and "forms a part of the producing organisation . . . [and] forms a part of the sovereign power, of which he was before but the subject." Without co-operation and association, "the workers . . . would remain related as subordinates and superiors, and there would ensue two industrial castes of masters and wage-workers, which is repugnant to a free and democratic society." [9]



The contrast between anarchism and "anarcho"-capitalism could not be clearer.



Free to choose . . . a master

The final defence of "anarcho"-capitalism is that authority associated with capitalism is voluntary, that workers consent to it. Of course, the same can be said of any democratic state. No one forces a citizen to remain within its borders. A defence of capitalist hierarchies in terms of consent logically means a defence of the state in the same terms -- particularly as capitalist property is as much the product of coercion as the state is. Moreover, given that Somalia is touted by some "anarcho"-capitalists as an example of their system, they have the same choice they usually give striking workers - if you don't like your current master, find a new one.



Yet there is a deeper objection to the "consent" argument, namely that it ignores the social circumstances of capitalism which limit the choice of the many. Anarchists have long argued that, as a class, workers have little choice but to "consent" to capitalist hierarchy. The alternative is either dire poverty or starvation. "Anarcho"-capitalists dismiss such claims by denying that there is such a thing as economic power. Rather, it is simply freedom of contract. [10]



Anarchists consider such claims as a joke. To show why, we need only quote Murray Rothbard on the abolition of slavery and serfdom in the 19th century. He argued, correctly, that the "bodies of the oppressed were freed, but the property which they had worked and eminently deserved to own, remained in the hands of their former oppressors. With economic power thus remaining in their hands, the former lords soon found themselves virtual masters once more of what were now free tenants or farm labourers. The serfs and slaves had tasted freedom, but had been cruelly derived of its fruits." [11]



To say the least, anarchists fail to see the logic in this position. Contrast this with the standard "anarcho"-capitalist claim that if market forces ("voluntary exchanges") result in the creation of "free tenants or farm labourers" then they are free. Yet labourers dispossessed by market forces are in exactly the same social and economic situation as the ex-serfs and ex-slaves. If the latter do not have the fruits of freedom, neither do the former. Rothbard sees the obvious "economic power" in the latter case, but denies it in the former.



Rothbard's position is untenable. A simple analogy shows why. Let us assume that someone kidnaps you and places you down a deep (naturally formed) pit, miles from anyway, which is impossible to climb up. No one would deny that you are unfree. Let us further assume that another person walks by and accidentally falls into the pit with you. According to Rothbard's logic, while you are unfree (i.e. subject to coercion) your fellow pit-dweller is perfectly free for they have subject to the "facts of nature" and not coercion.



It is only Rothbard's ideology that stops him from drawing the obvious conclusion -- identical economic conditions produce identical social relationships and so capitalism is marked by "economic power" and "virtual masters." The only solution is for "anarcho"-capitalists to simply say the ex-serfs and ex-slaves were actually free to choose and, consequently, Rothbard was wrong. It might be inhuman, but at least it would be consistent!



Conclusion

As Kropotkin noted about a previous generation of free market capitalists, the "modern Individualism initiated by Herbert Spencer is, like the critical theory of Proudhon, a powerful indictment against the dangers and wrongs of government, but its practical solution of the social problem is miserable -- so miserable as to lead us to inquire if the talk of 'No force' be merely an excuse for supporting landlord and capitalist domination." [12]



Much the same can be said for "anarcho"-capitalism. Anarchists would not bother themselves with it except that it calls itself anarchism. Yet, as shown, "anarcho"-capitalism makes as much sense as "anarcho-statism" -- an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. The idea that "anarcho"-capitalism warrants the name "anarchist" is simply false. Only someone ignorant of anarchism could maintain such a thing. While you expect anarchist theory to show this to be the case, the ironic thing is that "anarcho"-capitalism itself does the same.



Anarchism, as a political theory, was born when Proudhon wrote "What is Property?" specifically to refute the notion that workers are free when capitalist property forces them to seek employment by landlords and capitalists. He was well aware that in such circumstances workers sold their liberty and were exploited. His classic work is a lengthy critique of the kind of apologetics for landlord and capitalist power and property Rothbard espouses. It seems ironic, therefore, that "anarcho"-capitalism calls itself "anarchist" while basing itself on the arguments that anarchism was created in opposition to.



Ultimately, Rothbard himself proves the anarchist case that workers may be formally free under capitalism but their economic circumstances are such that freedom becomes little more than being "free" to pick a master. Capitalism, in other words, is based on economic power, which ensures that people "consent" to be subjected to authority structures identical to those created by the state. This means that a consistent anarchist, as Chomsky noted, must oppose both state and capitalism.



Opposing the latter does not mean opposing the market. Not all anarchists are communists (although most are). Capitalism is just one form of market system, one rooted in specific property rights and social relationships. For those "anarcho"-capitalists who genuinely seek a free society and still think that markets are the best way to organise an economy then the ideas of anarchist mutualism should be of interest. This is a socialist system based on "occupancy and use," where self-employed workers and co-operatives govern themselves and sell the product of their labour to their fellow workers. A society without hierarchy, exploitation and oppression -- a genuine anarchist society rather than a system of mini-states.



What will it be? Capitalism or Anarchism? As "anarcho"-capitalism itself proves, it cannot be both.



Footnotes

1. entering "anarchy" into http://dictionary.reference.com/



2. entering "anarchism" and "socialism" into http://dictionary.reference.com/



3. for more discussion see the appendix on "anarchism and 'anarcho'-capitalism" in "An Anarchist FAQ" at http://www.anarchistfaq.org/



4. quoted by Carl Watner, "The English Individualists as they appear in Liberty", Coughlin, Michael E., Hamilton, Charles H. and Sullivan, Mark A. (eds.), Benjamin R Tucker and the Champions of Liberty, p. 193 and pp. 194-5



5. Essay X: The Principles Of Voluntaryism And Free Life: http://oll.libertyfund.org/Texts/LFBooks/Herbert0120/CompulsionByState/HTMLs/0146_Pt11_Principles.html



6. The Ethics of Liberty, Humanities Press, Atlantic Highlands, N.J., 1982. p. 170 and p. 173



7. Op. Cit., p. 170



8. Bob Black, The Libertarian as Conservative, The Abolition of Work and other essays, p. 142



9. The General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteenth Century, Pluto Press, pp. 216-8



10. Rothbard, Op. Cit., pp. 221-2



11. Rothbard, Op. Cit., p. 74



12. Act For Yourselves, Freedom Press, London, 1988, p. 98
 

I don't really want to comment or read anything here.I have near zero in common with many of you.I may return periodically when there's something you need to know.

Near Mutualist/Libertarian Socialist.

 

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Whatever, contractarian-propertarian capitalism; call it what you want. I don't have any desire to hold 'anarchism' like some game of 'King of the Hill'; you want the stupid word, use it, it's associated with more crackpots and imbeciles than anyone worth a damn. I'll take Henry Clay Frick over Emma Goldman any day of the week and any time of the day. I'd rather be owned by Rockefeller than live in a 'commune' that only recognizes 'occupancy' ownership, and I don't have a damn bit of problem with shooting any such crazies who try to 'homestead' my house because I'm an absentee landlord.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Erm, I thought you were a  market anarchist mutualist?

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Felipe replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 12:16 PM

Anarcho-collectivists would make more sense if their conclusions werent so full of marxist dogmas, there is a point when the "alienation of labor" argument becomes tiresome.

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I agree with RJM and to further this point: even some recent anarchists recognize anarcho-capitalism as anarchy. this view on attacking anarcho-capitalism because it has different views than other strands of anarchy is becoming very outdated. In the words of Fred Woodworth, "Just plain anarchism (against government and authority) is what I'm for." And, Scott, you bet I'll be critiquing this

My Blog: http://www.anarchico.net/

Production is 'anarchistic' - Ludwig von Mises

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Yeah. I mean, the strict libertarian or an-cap project from a legal-logical perspective is basically all about property, contract and tort; authority, class, equality, solidarity, etc. don't even enter into the equation. If the left-anarchists don't want us, fine, I have even less use for them. I hate the government because it gets in the way of capitalism and squanders resources on pointless fights and politicization; which is exactly what most left-anarchists have in mind, politicizing everyone. I'd just as soon people minded their own business and let people go to Hell in peace.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Felipe replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 1:16 PM

I don't have a damn bit of problem with shooting any such crazies who try to 'homestead' my house because I'm an absentee landlord.

LOL

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You know, I find arguments about lables extremely annoying.  Why not argue about the positions we hold?  Rather than whether or not a particular lable applies to us? 

OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you preface everything you say with the phrase 'studies have shown...' people will believe anything you say no matter how ridiculous. Studies have shown this works 87.64% of the time.
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"We're the orthodox ideology therefore we are right."

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

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William replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 2:13 PM

I hate the government because it gets in the way of capitalism

oh Ricky you just opened a can of worms for more sloganing about the word "capitalism" and the word "free market", cause this stuff matters.

"I am not an ego along with other egos, but the sole ego: I am unique. Hence my wants too are unique, and my deeds; in short, everything about me is unique" Max Stirner
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The funny thing is that they will wax and range about 'freed markets', but no, what I mean by 'capitalism' is pretty much what horrifies them: big industrial combines, single men worth 1% of the net GDP of the USA, mass production for the masses, entrepreneur-capitalists commanding vertically integrated firms. There were obviously all sorts of problems of interventionism during the 19th century, but the conclusions left-libertarians draw from this are crankish in the extreme; yes, screwballs, John D. Rockefeller is better than you, deal with it.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Altruism doesn't create any prosperity. Neither does government. The free market and capitalism does. The help an entrepreneur gives society is thousands of times better then any state.

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

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That's Mises' point about capitalism, it is only the profitability of society that makes friendly feelings possible; and that profitability and advantage would exist even if everyone hated everyone else. And frankly, all this family-thinking, brotherhood, egalitarian nonsense is the cause of 90% of the problems we have. I'd rather live on a planet of Scrooges than with a bunch of left-anarchist nutters.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Mocky replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 4:19 PM

The basic point is private property leads to the formation of a State. It depends upon the rules governing property say if we are using Lockian principles then someone can own something regardless of whether they use it. I'm for active-use as a requirement for "owning" certain forms of property such as farm land.

I also think that people in Europe had a different conception of what property was to those in North America, when the ideologies were emerging. Many more people in North America had property that they could call their own while in Europe it was mostly in the hands of the political class and much more exclusive. By the latter point it was seen as a tool of the State, therefore needed to be abolished.

I'm not necessarily against any ideology to the extent it's proponents don't force it upon me. I wouldn't be against a bunch of traditional anarchists forming their own community along the principles they desire.

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Phaedros replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 4:35 PM

Hmm how does private property lead necessarily to the formation of a State? It seems to me that States need to break break private property rights. Anyways, how do you have anarchy when you need central control of resources for socialism?

Tumblr The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants. ~Albert Camus
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We aren't hip enough for Scott F. Boo hoo.

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

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Libertyandlife:

We aren't hip enough for Scott F. Boo hoo.

I know, I wish I could be part of a left-wing college kid fly-by-night philosophy.
I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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http://www.anarchico.net/2011/02/how-dare-those-evil-greedy-capitalists.html

How Dare Those Evil Greedy Capitalists Call Themselves Anarchists!

Intoduction

This is a critique/reply on this article: An Anarchist Critique on “Anarcho” Statism. Clearly, there is some debate whether the idea of capitalism can be in line with the idea of anarchy. I am obviously one of those people that say that it is completely compatible with anarchy and in this post I will defend this side of the argument.

What’s in a Name?

Most if, not all, of early anarchistic opposition against capitalism was dealing with state capitalism. The assumption that capitalism has to involve a state is clearly false. A State involves having some sort of public good/ service while capitalism is the complete opposite of that, it advocates private goods and services. A State is always practicing a mixture of socialism and capitalism, so if one thinks that a pro-capitalist anarchist is not compatible with anarchy because the State practices capitalism, then one can make the same claim against a pro-socialist anarchist because the State practices socialism. Like other anarchists, capitalist anarchists also criticize state capitalism. I would also like to refute the claim that all anarchists are against profit, rent, and interest. Modern economics whether it is Keynesian, Neoclassical, or Austrian, recognize that factors of production are land, labor, capital, and entrepreneur ability. What we get in return from the factors of production are rent, wages, interest, and profits. The great market anarchist Gustave de Molinari recognized this as well. Not only that but he used such economic principles to explain how society can achieve private defense in his “Production of Security”. (Note: The author has criticisms towards Molinari and anarchy, which I will talk about later in this post.)

The author claims that anarcho capitalists hold the dictionary as a source of explaining anarchy. I don’t, so his claim is false. In the article, the author also claims, “As it stands, anarchists have rarely, if ever, argued that they were simply aiming to abolish the state. From Proudhon onward, they have stressed social and economic goals along with political ones. It is no coincidence that the first self-proclaimed anarchist book was "What is Property?" rather than "What is Government?" But Pierre Joseph Proudhon’s book “What is Property?” as a much fuller title, “An Inquiry into the Principle of Right and of Government”. Nevertheless, we advocate something more than just to abolish government, and that is to advocate free markets. As I said before, the ideas of early anarchists towards capitalism deal with state capitalism and their false assumption that capitalism needs State.

Who cares what they thought?

If Gustave de Molinari was not an anarchist in practice, he sure was an anarchist in theory. Even Left Libertarians recognize this, like Roderick Long, going as far as calling Molinari the “originator of the theory of market anarchism.” Even if I hold the author’s claim as valid, then the whole theory of market anarchism would not be valid because the originator of such a theory was not anarchist. But a person doesn’t need to directly say, “I am an anarchist” in order to be an anarchist, does he/she? If so, where are the rules in order to become an anarchist? Do we need to fill out an “application of anarchy” in order to get accepted as an anarchist?

Let’s stray away from this subject for a minute and talk about the philosophy of Existentialism. Arguably, the father of Existentialism was the great Soren Kierkegaard, if we apply Kierkegaard’s philosophy, then we can imply that Kierkegaard would be quick to reject the Existentialist label. It still does not change the fact that Kierkegaard’s philosophy is very Existential. Albert Camus had this exact mindset that his philosophy was not Existentialist and he would reject the label, yet his philosophy is very Existentialist. The reason for this existentialist example is to point out that one could be something in theory, but not in practice.

Free to Choose… A Master

The way this section sounds to me is as follows, “Capitalism is nothing more than slavery, but at least the bright side is that one can choose their own master!” But, for the most part, slavery involves a zero-sum game. In other words, one side wins, while the other loses. Capitalism is not a zero sum game though. When two parties trade, they both benefit in the psych because in trade, and we trade because we value something MORE. Also, this ignores the advantage of the entrepreneur. If one is so “paranoid” with “choosing their master” then start a business of your own! Daniel Sanchez, from the Mises Community, has a great post how capitalism is more than what is implied in this anti-capitalistic article, here.

“Through the market process, the consumers tend to reward each producer according his contribution to consumer satisfaction: (1) the worker, through wages, according to the contribution of his labor, (2) the capitalist, through interest, according to the contribution of his providence, and to (3) the entrepreneur, through profit, according to the contribution of his judgment.”

The author’s whole view on capitalism is invalid and he clearly misunderstands capitalism as I, or fellow anarchists, view capitalism. That’s all I have to say…. Evil greedy capitalistic anarchist out--

My Blog: http://www.anarchico.net/

Production is 'anarchistic' - Ludwig von Mises

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Orthogonal replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 10:47 PM

The entire article revolved around word play and semantics. It is pretty telling that they completely ignored praxeology and logical derivations from first principles. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I really don't care what they call us or what we call ourselves, i like voluntaryist. However, if Ancap really bugs them, I'll be sure to use it in their presence.

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Bardock replied on Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:16 PM

What an incredibly disgruntled leftist. (referring to OP)

I could care less as to what few internet pseudo-intellectuals deem my views to be. At the end of the day I'll still  refer to myself as a libertarian, anarcho-capitalist, market anarchist, ect...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lteLWtfdbeM&feature=related
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Angurse replied on Tue, Mar 1 2011 3:51 PM

Whatever, contractarian-propertarian capitalism; call it what you want. I don't have any desire to hold 'anarchism' like some game of 'King of the Hill'; you want the stupid word, use it, it's associated with more crackpots and imbeciles than anyone worth a damn. I'll take Henry Clay Frick over Emma Goldman any day of the week and any time of the day. I'd rather be owned by Rockefeller than live in a 'commune' that only recognizes 'occupancy' ownership, and I don't have a damn bit of problem with shooting any such crazies who try to 'homestead' my house because I'm an absentee landlord.

This is perfect. "Libertarian" is up for the taking too.

"I am an aristocrat. I love liberty, I hate equality."
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>> "Libertarian" is up for the taking too.

Its all up for the taking, hell, have 'Human' too !

New world dictionary...

Human : A member of the Homo sapiens species that leans to the left

Pig/Ape: A member of the Homo sapiens species that is not Human(see above.)

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Angurse replied on Tue, Mar 1 2011 4:08 PM

 

Its all up for the taking, hell, have 'Human' too !

New world dictionary...

Human : A member of the Homo sapiens species that leans to the left

Pig/Ape: A member of the Homo sapiens species that is not Human(see above.)

I love it! "All too human" will become a fun insult to hurl.

"I am an aristocrat. I love liberty, I hate equality."
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The only grounds on which I would oppose the terms 'anarcho-capitalist' and 'market anarchism' is that they cause major confusion for most people new to the concept of the ideology (they will tend to confuse anarcho-capitalism for social anarchism and individualist anarchism, three completely different ideologies - though individualist anarchism is closer to anarcho-capitalism - falsely identifying all anarchist ideologies as the same). This is why I think Rothbard was wise in his decision to later refer to AnCap as Voluntaryism instead. This also has a clear advantage, being that 'anarchy' is a word associated with 'chaos', 'violence', 'lawlessness', etc.: not many people can associate something so negative with the word 'voluntary' which for me only has peaceful connotations.

However, this does not excuse the extremely annoying stance certain social anarchists take in playing nothing more than the "semantics game" when they try to attack AnCap: "but capitalism is a hierarchy", "but exploitation theory", "but AnCap is an oxymoron", blah, blah, blah.  *picks up rifle to load and fire*

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Mocky replied on Wed, Mar 2 2011 10:58 AM

@Phaedros I think he says private property and a State are not mutually exclusive concepts. The distintion between the two don't exist for him.

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It is precisely the futility of these discussions that leads me to reject the label "anarchist" completely, even if I am a "free-market capitalist," or a close approximation thereof.  The other half of that is that it's not "government" I have a problem with, per se, but methods employed by pretty much every government that has ever existed.  If a government could exist without employing morally suspect methods, I would have no basis upon which to denounce it. 

So I say, you don't like people like me calling myself "anarchist?"  Fine.  I won't.  What other petty thing can we find to bicker about?  :)

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William replied on Wed, Mar 2 2011 2:02 PM

It is precisely the futility of these discussions that leads me to reject the label "anarchist" completely, even if I am a "free-market capitalist," or a close approximation thereof.

Aye.  I also think it is a pretentious / semi-ignorant misuse of the word.:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/21846/387661.aspx

There is also the brilliant George Orwell artcile on political language linked in that thread which further illustrates my point, if you are interested

"I am not an ego along with other egos, but the sole ego: I am unique. Hence my wants too are unique, and my deeds; in short, everything about me is unique" Max Stirner
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