Rand Paul votes yes on tougher sanctions of Iran:
http://www.dailypaul.com/264797/senate-votes-to-tighten-sanctions-on-iran-rand-paul-votes-yes-11-30-12
Voted yes on massive military defense budget:
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/12/rand-paul-votes-in-favor-of-631-billion.html
Voted yes on Feinstein amondment to NDAA which (allegedly by some rights groups) doesn't fix the NDAA and in fact might make it worse:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-americans-indefinite-detention2012-11?0=defense
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/human-rights-religious-civil-liberties-and-immigration-rights-groups-oppose
Rand Paul, I am disappoint.
Sure would be interesting to know why the guy flew off the handle in the first place.
Rand Paul is a Republican Party loyalist and a nationalist, quite unlike his confederalist and independent minded father.
Did anyone else besides me read that he has plans to take a trip to Israel too?
He's in the pockets of AIPAC I think.
Anyway, his father is the Natural One %, he has the same Meyer's psychological type as Jesus and Jefferson did so it's unlikely his son would have the same type. His father truly was a gift from Nature's God... too bad too many people rejected Nature's Gift.
Even if we had a monarch who was the natural 1%, he would still get compromised because he would care for too many people for there to be a world of peace and anarcho-confederalism.
How the hell can his dad let him pull this shit? If my son were acting out like some sort of Neo-con punk then I'd take a page out of the Simpson's book of parenting.
Edit
SM,
I do love what "going of the handle" constitutes around here :)
It is interesting to wonder how it is "at home" between father and son. Maybe when Rand entered politics the two came to some kind of understanding that he would be independent and the two wouldn't fight each other over their positions?
@ Neodoxy
i dun get it
And I used to like The Simpsons until I found out it was progressive...and the show started to suck as it's animation grew better.
My point was that "off the handle" on this website is the same as mainstream Republicanism everywhere else.
Oh. Yes.
Also, this will derail the thread, but why is it that so many libertarians like the movie "Fight Club?" After I saw it, my conclusion that it was anti-capitalist even by our definition of it.
Classic Simpsons isn't partisan and there's heaps of libertarian themes in there. The writer of the most Simpsons episodes, John Swartzwelder, is a libertarian. Avoid episodes after season 12, though. There are very few good ones in there, and it becomes more and more left wing.
A real example of left-wing shit is Family Guy. The show was nice before it got cancelled, but afterwords, Seth Macfarlane just used it as an outspeaker for his liberal views.
lassic Simpsons isn't partisan and there's heaps of libertarian themes in there.
An old halloween episode around Clinton and Dole:
Alien as Bob Dole: "It's a two party system. You have to vote for one of us!"
Aliens laugh
Audience Member: "I think I'll vote for a third party!"
Alien as Bill Clinton: "Go ahead, throw you vote away!"
Aliens laugh.
I still like the simpsons. Seasons 17 and 18 started to get better and they arestill alright to very good. Lisa is only wrong half the time (she's always been anti-gun). But Groening loves Al Gore (Futurama) and hates Nixon (Futurama).
I really love watching Futurama, but everytime Al Gore's head appears it makes me cringe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ArvYLz32E
Fight Club is in a way anti-capitalist, but it's much more than that. The ideas of Tyler Durden's philosophy aren't promoted by the author as being correct and nor are the ideas of Jack (or the narrator)... the author feels that people should seek a balance between extremes.
People want to bash movies and art of any kind on these forums just for being anti-libertarian, but I don't think that does the art justice at all. Fight Club isn't just some anti-capitalist message, it's a guide for boys becoming men in a consumerist world. In fact it's not so much anti-capitalist as it is anti-consumerism. And by anti-consumerism, I don't mean to say that it promotes owning nothing at all, but more that it promotes not going out and "working at a job you hate just to buy shit you don't need."
Fight Club has some good messages. You take some, you leave some.
Quotes aren't working for me, but that was meant to be directed at SkepticalMetal
I see. You know, ever since joining the libertarian movement I've felt the need to restrict myself on what types of art I can and can't enjoy.
jaredsmith: Fight Club is in a way anti-capitalist, but it's much more than that. The ideas of Tyler Durden's philosophy aren't promoted by the author as being correct and nor are the ideas of Jack (or the narrator)... the author feels that people should seek a balance between extremes.
Yeah I think it's safe to say that not only is the message anti-consumerist, Tyler Durden's philosophy is also meant to be horrifying. I wouldn't read too much anti-capitalism into the movie.
Re: "Sure would be interesting to know why the guy flew off the handle in the first place."
The key is that he was never there in the first place.
SkepticalMetal: A real example of left-wing shit is Family Guy. The show was nice before it got cancelled, but afterwords, Seth Macfarlane just used it as an outspeaker for his liberal views.
Am I the only one who thinks Seth Macfarlane looks like Peter Brady? Ever seen the two of them together? Hmm
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
@ Groucho
Wow.
But yeah, I'm very much convinced now that Hollywood has a liberal agenda. Nowadays you see frauds like Sacha Baron Cohen humiliating the face of the libertarian movement by tricking Ron Paul.
I have to admit, that scene in Bruno was pretty funny, although it made me a little sad on the inside.
And yes, Hollywood is left-wing as hell. You don't have to be a neocon to realize that almost everything in the entertainment industry is left-wing. I think it's hilarious that people think that FoxNews is somehow "biased" while no other major networks catch nearly as much flak. I'm not a fan of FoxNews, but at least they have Stossel, who has to rank as one of the most influential libertarians alive.
Also, @SkepticalMetal, why do you feel you have to restrict what type of art you're into? I still love the Dead Kennedys and Rage Against the Machine despite their obvious philosophical misplacements. And as far as visual art, screw visual art; 99% of it is self-felating garbage.
On a completely unrelated note, I love Game of Thrones. The indiginous people who live north of the Wall are basically anarchists. They attempt to educate some of the main characters who live under a king about the virtues of true freedom, not living under a ruler; having self-determination and being free from the entanglement of the state. In response, the "civilized" people under the king try to slaughter them.
I don't know, I guess there's this voice in the back of my head that tells me that I'm...betraying...something when I watch something that's anti-libertarian. I mean ever since I got introduced to this whole thing I've looked at the world with a lot more cynicism - Boy Scouts, School, movies...everything that I used to be fine with has been tossed upside down now that I see "the truth."
SkepticalMetal:Sure would be interesting to know why the guy flew off the handle in the first place.
He never was on the handle. People just made the mistake of assuming he was and didn't pay attention...
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/06/rand-paul-i-am-not-libertarian.html
I also remember a youtube video about "advice to libertarian fathers" where a guy likens Ron Paul's failure with Rand to his own failure with his son.
EDIT
found it
http://mises.org/community/forums/t/30962.aspx
SkepticalMetal: Also, this will derail the thread, but why is it that so many libertarians like the movie "Fight Club?" After I saw it, my conclusion that it was anti-capitalist even by our definition of it.
I myself like it because it’s a damn good movie, even if anarcho-primitivist. I have reason to think that, due to man’s innate mental makeup, we’ll never find a libertarian movie as enjoyable as a collectivist one. I could, of course, be wrong.
The bruno scene wasn't funny at all to me. It actually made me very uncomfortable watching it. Not because of Bruno, because of Ron Paul.
Yeah. Now we have leftist jerks calling us homophobic or whatever because of Ron Paul's response to Sacha Baron Cohen when he did what he did. Oh yeah, what would Obama have done, would he have said "yes we can?" In his deceptive tactics the idiot created another excuse for RP haters.
"Also, this will derail the thread, but why is it that so many libertarians like the movie "Fight Club?" After I saw it, my conclusion that it was anti-capitalist even by our definition of it." - SkepticalMetal
Because it was anti establishment in general, and because it was reactionary against the general pussification of the American male, both of which many libertarians would find common cause with even if they disagreed on a fundamental level with where Tyler Durden took things. Different ideologies can come to the same conclusion via different routes, and find common cause because of the thematic content that underlies their movements.
@ Merlin
The original Star Wars trilogy was pretty anti-collectivist. In fact, the Mises website has a really awesome film list composed of some anti-establishment pro-libertarian movies.
Why don't you post the postive things Rand has done, and we can weigh it out?
Here's his appearance today on Schiff's show.
Even though I prefer his father's more principled stances, I don't know if we can call him a 'traitor'. I mean, did he ever promise to be a clone of his father? We shouldn't be angry just because he's a different person with different values and priorities. That's completely normal and no one's going to be the PERFECT libertarian. And like has been said before, it's funny that so many of us, even libertarians, seem to fall victim to some sort of innate desire for an American royal family!
Could you please specify on what you mean by "American royal family?"
Well, first of all, I'm talking about the way people, especially in the media, treat the president and his family. The way they're so fascinated with everything about his personal life. The name of his dog, the food he likes to eat, the sports teams he follows, his singing skills, etc. This kind of bootlicking has no place in a republic.
Second, I think people are expecting Rand to be his father just because they're related. In the same way Democrats trust the Kennedy "brand", some libertarians were getting too caught up in a Paul brand.
dude6935 - how about we do the same for Ron Paul. I'll start by listing bad things he voted for:
-
@ fountainhead
Ah yes, the cult of Obama. It really is too bad Thomas Jefferson couldn't be resurrected. I'm not the guy's number 1 fan or anything, but I would just love for him to see how the Oval Office occupier's family has been deified.
Wheylous: dude6935 - how about we do the same for Ron Paul. I'll start by listing bad things he voted for: -
I wonder what votes Murray Rothbard had in mind when he wrote this in 1982...
The current issue of Lib. Vanguard (October 1982) is a cornucopia of goodies, a veritable blockbuster. There is a thoroughly researched article by Justin Raimondo, "Ron Paul for President?", which exposes the manifold anti-libertarian aspects of Congressman Ron Paul's voting record in the current Congress. The point of the article is that while Congressman Paul's voting record may be fine as a Republican, Libertarian candidates, particularly new converts aspiring to run for President, must be held to a far higher standard. And the odious Crane machine has been making loud noises about Mr. Paul for the LP Presidential nomination. While everyone has free will and can change his mind, Mr. Paul as a candidate for the LP nomination would have to face up to and repudiate his long list of anti-libertarian votes and stands before anyone except the goose-stepping devotees of the Crane Machine could even consider him for such a high post.
Government Explained 2: The Special Piece of Paper
Law without Government
Wheylous:The bruno scene wasn't funny at all to me. It actually made me very uncomfortable watching it. Not because of Bruno, because of Ron Paul.
Ron Paul was in Bruno too? I never saw that one. How the hell did he get fooled by the same guy twice??
Now THIS one I like.
Sacha was hilarious back in his old roles of Ali G or Borat, where he would troll or insult the hell out of uptight, upper class white people who always seemed to take his antics all too seriously. Just watch one of his clips where he mocks a politician by pretending to be oblivious to what political party he belongs to (all of them are avalaible on youtube). He went in decline after his Borat movie, and his late Dictator film was largely passe by any standard.
And yes, Hollywood is left-wing as hell. You don't have to be a neocon to realize that almost everything in the entertainment industry is left-wing.
Except when it releases another patriotic war schlock drenched in bodily fluids spilled over various Pentagon military hardware. It isn't left-wing as much as it is fanatically state worshipping. Honestly, I find movies and media released by Hollywood these days resembling more and more Stalinist or Nazi propaganda.
The real question is why you expect something out of Rand in the first place. He's a politician trying to stay a poltician. Paul was a major aberration, a politician trying to end the job of all politicians.