liberty student: but I love Stargate, and can now barely watch it with the blatant militarism and pro-state stuff in it.
You dare to smear Stargate? Repeat and thou shall be saved!
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
Laughing Man:You dare to smear Stargate? Repeat and thou shall be saved!
Tok'ra are people too.
liberty student:On forums in particular, talk is cheap.
liberty student:It's like saying what we find aesthetically pleasing is the opposite of our values, and this is just something we never question and others should not question either.
liberty student:Well I questioned it. And I suppose in retrospect, I got what I expected to get back.
Knight_of_BAAWA:You didn't question it; you said "I'm holier than thou". Same crap that Max tries to pull.
Not the first time that's been noticed today.
This whole thread makes me want to pwn (read "murder") some n00bs on some online games. But I'm probably going to end up with some nonaggressive exercise, or finishing up Defending the Undefendable.
On a side note, I'm very happy to have discovered the non aggression principle. I have always believed it. I always felt I could identify with both the man who owns many guns in his house and the pacifist, seeing defense or justice as the only legitimate form of aggression.
Freedom has always been the only route to progress.
liberty student:There is a reason why you play such games and other people do not.
He knows how to have fun and you don't? He knows the difference between virtual reality and reality? Plenty of people play violent video games,
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas = 9.4 Million
Grand Theft Auto IV = 8.5 MIllion
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City = 7.3 Million
Halo II = 6.61 Million
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare = 6.3 Million
Grand Theft Auto III = 6.2 MIllion
liberty student:There is a reason why males play that game more than females.
Testosterone.
liberty student:There is a reason why childless males play those games more than fathers.
Because the word "father" includes every generation (roughly everyone over 40) that never played video games as kids. PLENTY of fathers under 40 play violent video games. The younger the father the more likely they are to play since the demographics on most games is age related and has nothing to do with you being a parent.
Video games are great fun. Take GTA, you get to steal whatever car you want and run down civilians with it. Where else can you do things like this but in video games? Some of my current favorites are Battlefield: Bad Company Multiplayer where the objective is to steal the gold crates.
I feel sorry for people who deprive themselves of harmless entertainment all the in the pursuit of some cult like ideology.
"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises
Lybertyandlife:I don't think Tarantino has any main point. Movies don't have to. Tarantino just likes to show interesting dialog, plot twists, and plays with the aesthetics of violence.
Capital Pumper:Tarantino took a top tier cliche idea (hyperbolic, Jewish revenge fantasy) for a story, and managed to deal sweet poetic justice to the movie's target audience.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Poptech:Plenty of people play violent video games,
That's a logical fallacy called an appeal to populism. Lots of people voted for Barack Obama. That doesn't mean Barack Obama is right about anything.
Poptech:Testosterone.
It could well be that. Ironically, libertarianism (the real stuff) appeals to men more than women as well. Why, I don't know. But the numbers seem significantly skewed that the case seems unassailable.
Poptech:I feel sorry for people who deprive themselves of harmless entertainment all the in the pursuit of some cult like ideology.
You assume that I am being deprived, by doing things which don't simulate things I find offensive morally.
But because I find them offensive morally, not doing them, my satisfaction is increased. This is a basic praxeological truth.
As to pursuing a cult like ideology, if you think non-aggression is a cult like ideology, that's your call. Even my own peanut gallery would beg to differ with you, and they hate my guts. Then again, these paragons of principle probably won't stop hating me long enough to defend libertarian ethics.
Raising the bar is easy, jumping over it is hard. lol
There are a lot of more productive things (in my opinion) I choose to do, like create content for others to consume. Consumption is fine, but someone has to be a producer in the market as well, and producing is a good way to achieve financial independence. I don't know anyone who got rich consuming. There may be some of the folks out there, but I suspect they are few and far between.
Juan, considering that you believe the US Military to be a organization of mass murderers, why on Earth would you hold any sympathy for the Nazis, who would be morally equivalent in your eyes (presumably). Or do you mean "cliche" in a more neutral sense?
Juan: Lybertyandlife:I don't think Tarantino has any main point. Movies don't have to. Tarantino just likes to show interesting dialog, plot twists, and plays with the aesthetics of violence. That's certainly possible and maybe I'm trying to read too much into his films. Capital Pumper:Tarantino took a top tier cliche idea (hyperbolic, Jewish revenge fantasy) for a story, and managed to deal sweet poetic justice to the movie's target audience. Yes, Jewish revenge is one of the themes and nazis=evil was a standard cliche, but I didn't get the impression that the good guys were depicted as totally good either. And the movie struck me as partially a farce/satire so it looks as if Tarantino was making fun of the revenge thing. (hope that's not a spoiler).
I can explain the cliche, he likes to play with exploitation films. Robert Rodriguez likes to do the same thing. Just look at Planet Terror or Jackie Brown.
liberty student:That's a logical fallacy called an appeal to populism. Lots of people voted for Barack Obama. That doesn't mean Barack Obama is right about anything.
No appeal just reality. Being "right" has nothing to do with playing any game. You play a game for personal entertainment.
liberty student:It could well be that. Ironically, libertarianism (the real stuff) appeals to men more than women as well. Why, I don't know. But the numbers seem significantly skewed that the case seems unassailable.
My Theory - Libertarian (the definition) appeals to men more because men on average prefer to do things themselves. Women on average prefer doing things "together" thus they are more likely to support collectivist systems.
liberty student:As to pursuing a cult like ideology, if you think non-aggression is a cult like ideology, that's your call.
It is when I hear people giving up video games and movies they clearly enjoyed just to "fit in" or be more "non-aggressive". I find it laughably ridiculous and yes cult like. "Rothbard said it was ok to pay this game..." When I read that in a book, I realized that the whole "NAP lifestyle" is as bad as some ideological cult.
I am willing to make non-aggressive games if LibertyStudent and others find value in funding such projects.
http://libregamewiki.org - The world's only encyclopedia on free(as in freedom) gaming.
Poptech:It is when I hear people giving up video games and movies they clearly enjoyed just to "fit in" or be more "non-aggressive". I find it laughably ridiculous and yes cult like.
Do you really think that working towards or desiring peace is any more cultlike than worshipping a flag or some founding ancestors, or some old piece of parchment paper? Do you really think it is any more cult like than standing with 40,000 people at a baseball game with your hand on your chest chanting national slogans and showtunes?
Poptech:"Rothbard said it was ok to pay this game..." When I read that in a book, I realized that the whole "NAP lifestyle" is as bad as some ideological cult.
I've explained to you many times that I am not a Rothbardian, not by a long shot. But his political analysis is very good, and it did appeal to me while I was still political. You seem to do this thing where you conflate followers of Rothbard with Rothbard, or his social theorizing with his economic or political analysis.
It's not very rigorous of you to do so. You're not an idiot. You're certainly capable of making very precise and logical analysis. Why you refuse to is beyond me. I think maybe you're just one of those guys who has flame warred with people so long, you're not capable of having an online discussion without trying to undermine any opinion that differs with your own. I was there a few years ago. We have a few other guys here like that. Some aren't as bright as you. You can be productive in debate if you want to be.
kiba:I am willing to make non-aggressive games if LibertyStudent and others find value in funding such projects.
It's going to happen one day. Make sure you are involved in something like that, because when liberty goes viral, like how it did with Ron Paul, it's an amazing thing to be a part of.
liberty student:Do you really think that working towards or desiring peace is any more cultlike than worshipping a flag or some founding ancestors, or some old piece of parchment paper? Do you really think it is any more cult like than standing with 40,000 people at a baseball game with your hand on your chest chanting national slogans and showtunes?
Chill the fuck out bro.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
Stranger:Chill the fuck out bro.
I'm not your bro, but I am pretty chilled out. It's been a great day. A precious one at that.
Praetyre:Juan, considering that you believe the US Military to be a organization of mass murderers, why on Earth would you hold any sympathy for the Nazis, who would be morally equivalent in your eyes (presumably).
Juan: Praetyre:Juan, considering that you believe the US Military to be a organization of mass murderers, why on Earth would you hold any sympathy for the Nazis, who would be morally equivalent in your eyes (presumably). I've zero sympathy for the nazis. I probably didn't word that right. What I meant is that one of the themes of the movie was evil nazis - it's not an original theme, so it's cliche - I didn't mean nazism was not evil. Maybe cliche was not the best word ? cliche : (in art, literature, drama, etc.) a trite or hackneyed plot, trite : lacking in freshness or effectiveness because of constant use
Just look at the billion spin offs of the Medal Honor games, so many games where the point is to kill Nazis.
poptech:My Theory - Libertarian (the definition) appeals to men more because men on average prefer to do things themselves. Women on average prefer doing things "together" thus they are more likely to support collectivist systems.
Since we're throwin theories out there- I don't think the reason is because women tend to do things together. I think its more because we seem to lack a bit of an emotional appeal with our positions and arguments- which is hard to reconcile since we have the moral advantage. The way liberals of today seem to put their arguments have a much more emotional bent to them- and not just women but more people in general respond to that. We have logic on our side too- but for whatever reason getting rooted into logical reasons comes off as a bit "cold" and almost "suspicious" if there aren't emotions behind it. Lol I hope that made some sense.
I've talked to many women and got them to libertarianism- its not hard unless you sound like a robot and can't emote. Being women doesn't prevent them from understanding- but women tend to be more in touch with their emotions so its the easier route.
Libertyandlife: Just look at the billion spin offs of the Medal Honor games, so many games where the point is to kill Nazis.
Even the ooooldest- remember Wolfenstein?
Libertyandlife: Juan: Praetyre:Juan, considering that you believe the US Military to be a organization of mass murderers, why on Earth would you hold any sympathy for the Nazis, who would be morally equivalent in your eyes (presumably). I've zero sympathy for the nazis. I probably didn't word that right. What I meant is that one of the themes of the movie was evil nazis - it's not an original theme, so it's cliche - I didn't mean nazism was not evil. Maybe cliche was not the best word ? cliche : (in art, literature, drama, etc.) a trite or hackneyed plot, trite : lacking in freshness or effectiveness because of constant use Just look at the billion spin offs of the Medal Honor games, so many games where the point is to kill Nazis.
We gon' be doing one thang and one thang only - killin' nazis.
liberty student:Do you really think that working towards or desiring peace is any more cultlike than worshipping a flag or some founding ancestors, or some old piece of parchment paper?
Working towards peace and living some absurd NAP "lifestyle" are two different things. People can take things too far. I respect people who work for peace but I also recognize that video games are not real and harmless entertainment. At the same time I do not "worship" any flag, I respect the U.S. flag because that is the country I live in and it has given me much more freedom than the rest of the world, I also believe in certain ideals of my ancestors like the founding fathers and old parchment's like the constitution. At the same time I can separate my ideals from the current condition of the government.
liberty student:I've explained to you many times that I am not a Rothbardian, not by a long shot.
Yes but did he have an effect on your NAP "lifestyle" choice? Clearly he is a major proponent of the NAP.
Personally I don't like to see people who are attempting to practice the NAP making their lives miserable just to "fit in".
Libertyandlife:Just look at the billion spin offs of the Medal Honor games, so many games where the point is to kill Nazis.
It's a game, a form of escapism, a tool for the mind to lavish itself, please don't take it so seriously. I enjoy violence in games. What of it? Oh no, I must be a horrific psychopath bent on deep-seated desires to obliterate and crush anything between my would-be tyrannical heel!
Or... I like blowing up pixels. Preferrably with felfire.
...
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
Jon Irenicus:Or... I like blowing up pixes. Preferrably with felfire.
Even though semtex is a far more practical means.
Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.
- Edmund Burke
Ultima && Atma Weapon > all
Yeah, cause everyone but facists hates them, normal people, libertarians, neocons, liberals etc etc. Also, WWII weapons were awesome. Just look at the BAR, or the M1 Garand. But what's cool about video games is you can be doing anything, you can be guiding petals of a flower (PSN game- Flower) or killing hordes of zombies NAP style with people online (Left 4 Dead 2).
L.C.:Why should witnessing the violent death of a real human being reduce me to tears, ...
Who told you that? Contrary to what you may think the NAP does not tell you when it is appropriate to cry.
L.C.:... , but watching the same death pixelated have no impact - and even be "fun" if it is at my whim?
There is no death. Pixels are not alive. Nobody dies in computer games. Do you understand that? You're going to cry over liquid crystals changing color?!
Wow people. Enjoying violent media does not make you a sociopath. Unless you redefine the word to make it meaningless, or at best unnecessary because you've made it roughly synonymous with "male".
The thrill of predation is real. It's an emotion. It's not some imaginary social construct invented by the state. It's an animal instinct present in any creature equipped to digest muscular tissue, or which evolved in an environment of limited resources whether carnivore or herbivore.
We can advance the philosophy of peace and trade without denying the obvious. Stay in touch with reality, people.
liberty student: but I love Stargate, and can now barely watch it with the blatant militarism and pro-state stuff in it. Despite the great sci-fi backdrop, the show is basically a mockery of what I would hope exploration would be.
but I love Stargate, and can now barely watch it with the blatant militarism and pro-state stuff in it. Despite the great sci-fi backdrop, the show is basically a mockery of what I would hope exploration would be.
Intriguing. Even though I own nearly all the StarGate DVDs and have always enjoyed watching the show (especially SG1), I've recently had second thoughts about some aspects of the story line as well. Just to pick a few aspects:- Once the Jaffa had been liberated from Goa'uld oppression, why in the world did they make them set up a centralized democracy? That's just so much against what had been portrayed as the traditional Jaffa way of life that it's basically neo-con propaganda for sci-fi fans.
- When Carter accidentally enters a parallel reality in which the world has fallen to tyranny, there's an Ori assault on Earth that can only be prevented by the US president's decree to switch 70% of all national power to an invisibility shield. How would a free market have dealt with this problem?There's more, but I don't want to derail the thread. Would you be interested in discussing this in a seperate one?
Marko:Who told you that? Contrary to what you may think the NAP does not tell you when it is appropriate to cry.
Marko:There is no death. Pixels are not alive. Nobody dies in computer games. Do you understand that?
Marko:You're going to cry over liquid crystals changing color?!
I was asking a question about my experience, as I described it. I played violent games, but once I learned about the non-aggression principle and could no longer justify violence as the state justifies it, I lost my appetite for violent games. I wanted to learn if anyone else has had this experience. So far, the answer seems to be no. If I am correctly gauging the sentiment here, emotional acceptance of the non-aggression principle is irrelevant and subjective.I was just curious if anyone could expound on this, or had a different experience.
Sphairon:There's more, but I don't want to derail the thread. Would you be interested in discussing this in a seperate one?
Indeed! Do it, Sphairon!
L.C.:I was just curious if anyone could expound on this, or had a different experience.
I have had a pretty similar experience. It hasn't been a cut and dry thing where I will never play a violent game again, but I get disgusted with the quickly, vary rarely play them, and probably will not buy one again. I imagine in the next few years I will slowly phase it out completely.
I've also had a similar but more extreme experience with movies, I cringe at the thought of watching almost any movie now. Give me a good book or at least a good documentary.
liberty student:Tok'ra are people too.
I work towards the freedom of Jaffa daily.
liberty student: kiba:I am willing to make non-aggressive games if LibertyStudent and others find value in funding such projects. It's going to happen one day. Make sure you are involved in something like that, because when liberty goes viral, like how it did with Ron Paul, it's an amazing thing to be a part of.
Naw, my primary objective is to make money. One of the way to do that is to satisfy unmet market demands.
Now...My expression of freedom comes more from what I do with copyright than the actual theme. I wouldn't make a game libertarian if it is not appropriate to its genre.
CoD MW2 for the PS3 is the best war game ever, except for when you die even though you shot the other person first.
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
Daniel Muffinburg:except for when you die even though you shot the other person first.
Well, if you are using an assault rifle while the other player is using a submachine gun, that might occur justly due to the differing rates of fire that the guns have.
laminustacitus: Daniel Muffinburg:except for when you die even though you shot the other person first. Well, if you are using an assault rifle while the other player is using a submachine gun, that might occur justly due to the differing rates of fire that the guns have.
True dat. But assault riffles are supposed to be more powerful. I blame the server lag, anyway.
Daniel Muffinburg: I blame the server lag, anyway.
Noob! By the way, I'm up to a lvl 45 major.
Laughing Man: Daniel Muffinburg: I blame the server lag, anyway. Noob! By the way, I'm up to a lvl 45 major.
Not bad. I'm at lvl 69.